Heshe came on the site to spread bile and to try to trick some Christions into saying the Jewish people are the underlying problem in the world and get S&L labeled as being anti-semitic.

People like himher are the modern day Lucifers.

It’s not worth debating anything with people like that. They are committed idealogues who only want to cause trouble. As you saw, heshe didn’t really want a discussion, just a soapbox.

Thank you.

I believe what the word of God says, not your purposeful misinterpretations to promote your own theories.

TTS

We simply disagree … I state forthrightly that the Bible is not authoritative; you state that it is. I don’t believe Jesus is the way, the truth, or the life; whilst I admire him whatever his essence.

If your evidence for your correctness is the perfect authority of the Bible, it does not persuade me.

Note: you also have not explained how the Ten Commandments occurred before the Holocaust of the Canaanites by Moses and Joshua. That is a contradiction; how can truth contradict itself?

But if you believe the LORD controls all, then you must concede, to be consistent, that the LORD caused the Holocaust of the Jews and non-Jews in the 20th century; that the LORD slaughtered those 13 milion people (and caused the death of 60 million total in WW II), and not Hitler and the Nazis per se (they being divine instruments). More that the LORD is the cause of human suffering – poverty and misery.

What is a bit deranged is that when good happens, especially for your cause, you think it is the LORD’s will; when bad happens you’d rather discuss something else.

Essential to finding truth is considering the rightness and wrongness of others; so finding you wrong is essential to my quest. And you are wrong … somehow you know it to be so … I can tell from your posts.

TTS

Again, you need to read the Biblical accounts you reference within their full context. I am not debating any further than this.

E.g., Deut 2:34: And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain.

I looked up malign in the dictionary and it implies falsehood; I raise accurate points that undermine the ethical highground that Zionists and religious fundamentalist would take vis-a-vis Amadinejad (and Hitler) and Iran (and Nazi Germany). Quite the contrary, you seem to delight in maligning Iran, Amadinejad, and muslims – accusing them of acts that are beyond the pale in some way when they are like-kind responses to acts committed against them.

[It seems BatK and Jobeth are basically fundamentalists; hey, I'm not, but I imagine you two are fine people if you walk what you talk ... my aunt was a nun and my uncle a priest ... they were among the best of folk ever.]

Nero et al. have not come up; they are murderers, but perhaps ethnic cleansers, religious persecutors, or some-such rather than genociders is more apt.

If your LORD slaughters children in their cribs for the sins of their parents as was the fate of Canaanite [and Egyptian] children at the hands of Moses (or wipes out Gomorrah’s children), then his powers however great are clumsy and imprecise and his punishment all too familiarly vicious; and that LORD has first and foremost my skepticism … and moreover my criticism. You would have us ignore the whole Bible for it’s ethical highlights … I would not.

Note, your views compel you to accept that the Holocaust of the Jews and non-Jews by the Nazis was pro-actively the LORD’s will. That is in keeping with your faith, no?

But if you’d like to embrace your Biblical worldview, then all is in the LORD’s hands and mankind’s future is assured. Great, I could use some help … er, uh, is irony allowed on this website. Silliness aside, I am a man of faith. I’m convinced there is wisdom in the Bible but the Bible is neither whole nor truth, merely guidance toward the truth among other forms of guidance. If I’m wrong, it’s not because I’m malicious, but stupid … OK. I’ll proceed in any case.

TTS

You missed my entire point earlier regarding the LAND of Israel. The Lord repeatedly told the Israelites WHY they were displacing the nations in the land – their OWN abominations were causing their OWN punishment. Again, not because the Jews were so great, but because the sins of the people were so great. Sodom and Gemorrah are another example of GOD HIMSELF removing the people from the Land of Israel because of their sin (and this was waaaay before the 10 commandments). Take a look at Noah and the flood. Same thing. The wickedness of mankind caused them to be destroyed. The Jews were also punished for their idolatry at the hands of the Assyrians and Babylonians. Why aren’t you calling Nebuchadnezzar a genocidal maniac? Or Nero? Your logic is flawed.

As far as prostitution, specifically what we are talking about were orgies in the temples of these pagan gods. People having sex with one another as an offering to the god, or in fact, as if the temple prostitute were the god him/herself. Are Israelis perfect? No. Is anybody? No. However, I can guarantee you that an Israeli prostitute is not doing it to bring glory to Asherah or some other fertility goddess.

You seem to take great delight in maligning the Jewish people with one breath and then exonerating yourself from Anti-Semitism with the other. As the book of James says, fresh and salt water do not flow from the same spring. I would challenge you to start in Genesis and keep reading for yourself WITHOUT the commentary. If you are so convinced that your views are correct, ask the God of Israel, the God that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob worshiped, to reveal Himself to you and show you what is true and what isn’t. Read the Bible IN CONTEXT and without someone else’s interpretation. You might just be surprised. If you think you “don’t need to” or “already have,” I’d challenge you to give it another try. Read. And then keep reading.

Do you have a Biblical citation or other proof that Canaanites sacrificed children to their gods?

There is widespread prostitution amongst Jews (and Arabs) on every street corner of Tel Aviv as we write; ohhhhh.

I’m turning in for the night, but your excuse of Moses and Joshua is pathological. If I may summarize your rationale, Moses and Joshua were justified in their premeditated genocidal slaughter of men, women, and children because their fellow Jews thought well of them and/or because SOME Canaanites were ALLEGEDLY child-sacrificers and/or because God said they could.

That Moses and Joshua commited genocide is de facto proof that by “chosen” in the Bible it is meant “better.” Or, is that what we are to determine the “light of the world” is meant to instruct the world, i.e., how to strangle babies in their cribs? Vomit out means eject; not murder.

I note in passing that all of this genocide occurs AFTER the ten commandments are handed down, including thou shalt not murder. It’s so warped. Thomas Paine and others have written far more conclusively than I might as to the absurdities and contradictions of the Bible. It’s great literature, but it would not seem not per se, God’s word. Only the self-interested (Jews and Christians) could think it so.

Further, the same justification for the genocide of the 5 million Jews (and 8 million non-Jews) applies to Hitler were one to make the case. Many Nazis had glowing reviews of Hitler and his inner circle; and the Nazis, too, felt they had occult justification. Further, certainly every adult Jew slaughtered in the Holocaust was a sinner against God in one way or another. I write here ironically to point out the absurdity of your rationale.

Consider this: if indeed the God of Abraham is the God of the Universe, then he must have wanted Hitler to do as he did as a means to teach his chosen people a lesson – presumably. I personally find this understanding troubling, but it is the only one consistent with Judaism’s central theme as manifested in the Bible. Throughout, all hardship agains the Jews was God’s will (wrath). It would imply that so too was Nazi Germany. But somehow Jews rationalize around this as if this one historical event was not God’s will.

Wirenut …

You are wrong, it is the land not the people. Iran would not care about Jews if Jews had not displaced Muslims from Palestine in the 20th century. Amadinejad has never called for the erradication of the Jews, but rather of the State of Israel. He’s reprehensible enough correctly drawn. By engaging in hyperbole, you are, in my eyes, de-legitimizing your cause.

To be fair, Moses and Joshua also killed entire nations of people for merely being themselves. Moses is a Jewish hero, Hitler a war criminal. Hmmmm ….

TTS

PS I’m not anti-Jews. I have my criticisms of Judaism (and Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.), but I hope Jews who are righteous live well and prosper; as I hope for all people(s). I’m anti-hypocrisy.

1. The Jews were “chosen”, according to Deut 7:4-11, to be a light to the world that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob IS God. He says that HE chose them, not because they were so awesome, but because they were the smallest, weakest, etc on the planet and He would show HIS greatness through them. Nowhere does the Bible talk about the Jews being BETTER than any other people… they were simply CHOSEN to show the world He is God. . It’s not an issue of anything being “spun.” There are also blessings, repeatedly stated throughout the Old Testament, for those who are not born Jewish, but worship the God of Israel. Ruth is a fantastic example. Rahab was a former prostitute from the city of Jericho, yet is mentioned in the lineage of Jesus. Your view of Judaism is completely incorrect and based on your own assumptions, rather than anything actually found in the Bible.

2. Again, re-read your Scripture as to WHY the nations that resided in Canaan were booted from the Land. The Land of Israel is GOD’S Holy Land. The Lord spoke to Moses, telling him that because of the sin of the current inhabitants (Canaanites), THE LAND would vomit out its inhabitants (Leviticus 18:24-30).

Why? The Canaanites routinely sacrificed children to their gods (forcing them to walk through fire being a popular choice) and committed all kinds of cult prostitution (male and female) among other things. Some of their gods included Molech, Ba’al, Kemosh, and Asherah. When the children of Israel later took on the pagan practices of their neighbors and did the SAME THINGS, they too were booted out of the Land, the Northern Kingdom taken by Assyria in 722 BC, and the Southern Kingdom by the Babylonians in 586 BC. The Jews were not exempt from being kicked out God’s Holy Land simply because they were Jews.

The Jewish people (unlike any other people group of their day) believed in ONE God, rather than a pantheon of pagan deities. They were called to be separate (Hebrew:”kadosh, meaning “holy”) so that the world would see something different about them, how they worshiped, and that THEIR God was different than the gods of the Canaanities. This has not changed in the New Testament, where believers are also called to be “in the world, but not of it” and countless places in Scripture where the Lord says, “You are to be holy for I am holy.”

3. Your depiction of Moses and Joshua as “genocidal melomaniacs” is absurd considering what the Bible says about Moses in Numbers 12:3: “Now this man Moses was very humble, more so than anyone on earth.” Deuteronomy 31 talks about Joshua having the “Spirit of wisdom.”

Go somewhere else to spread your bile.

Admire Akmanutjob on a website where your insane rantings will be appreciated.