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Brzezinski: Shoot Down Israeli Planes

We almost missed this little nugget of wisdom, buried as it was in an interview with Gerald Posner at The Daily Beast:

How Obama Flubbed His Missile Message

by Gerald Posner

September 18, 2009

… How aggressive can Obama be in insisting to the Israelis that a military strike might be in America’s worst interest?

We are not exactly impotent little babies. They have to fly over our airspace in Iraq. Are we just going to sit there and watch?

What if they fly over anyway?

Well, we have to be serious about denying them that right. That means a denial where you aren’t just saying it. If they fly over, you go up and confront them. They have the choice of turning back or not. No one wishes for this but it could be a Liberty in reverse. [Israeli jet fighters and torpedo boats attacked the USS Liberty in international waters, off the Sinai Peninsula, during the Six-Day War in 1967. Israel later claimed the ship was the object of friendly fire.] …

Ah, yes. We should shoot down the airplanes of our allies.

After all, "we’re not impotent little babies."

And we certainly we don’t want anything to happen that might offend the Iranians. They might not be willing to talk to us.

Oh, and never mind Mr. Brzezinski’s unmistakable accusation that Israel’s attack on the USS Liberty was intentional.

(Thanks to BillK for the heads up.)

This article was posted by Steve on Monday, September 21st, 2009. Comments are currently closed.

24 Responses to “Brzezinski: Shoot Down Israeli Planes”

  1. BillK says:

    From Israel’s Arutz Sheva:

    Zbig Brzezinski: Shoot Down Israeli Planes if They Attack Iran

    By Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu

    Zbigniew Brzezinski, who enthusiastically campaigned for U.S. President Barack Obama, has called on the president to shoot down Israeli planes if they attack Iran. “They have to fly over our airspace in Iraq. Are we just going to sit there and watch?” said the former national security advisor to former U.S. President Jimmy Carter in an interview with the Daily Beast. Brzezinski, who served in the Carter administration from 1977 to 1981, is currently a professor of American foreign policy at Johns Hopkins University’s School of Advanced International Studies in Maryland.

    We have to be serious about denying them that right,” he said. “If they fly over, you go up and confront them. They have the choice of turning back or not. No one wishes for this but it could be a ‘Liberty’ in reverse.’” Israel mistakenly attacked the American Liberty ship during the Six-Day War in 1967.

    Brzezinski was a top candidate to become an official advisor to President Obama, but he was downgraded after Republican and pro-Israel Democratic charges during the campaign that Brzezinski’s anti-Israel attitude would damage Obama at the polls.

    President Obama’s advisors have emphasized that the former national security advisor is not playing any unofficial role as advisor to the White House.

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/133515

    Nice when the truth comes out, isn’t it?

    A shame you won’t read about this in the MSM.

  2. proreason says:

    Don’t pretend to me that these people aren’t dangerous.

    This fool is one of the Moron’s more “moderate” advisors.

    He has been Secretary of State, for God’s sake.

    It’s unbelievable.

    Beyond unbelievable.

  3. sheehanjihad says:

    If in fact our dear leader authorizes the shooting down of Israeli aircraft for any reason whatsoever….he will be signing the death warrant of millions of American citizens who will be viewed by Muslims as a gift from a severely weak and spineless President.

    They collectively, cannot believe their good fortune in how our so called leaders are handling them….and I am positive that their prayers to allah include the name of barak obama when giving thanks for the opportunity to martyr themselves in the mandated elimination of infidels.

    Brzezninski is committing the gravest of mistakes…..telegraphing a tepid response to Islam, and threatening force against one of the only countries left that has the balls to fight back…and fight back hard. He is a moron, and another tool in the greater scheme of things.

  4. qbit says:

    “Brzezninski … another tool in the greater scheme of things”
    yea, well so is Israel. And the objective now is to diffuse the whole occupying Iraq thing, which requires deception,.. like we could stand up to Israel.

  5. beautyofreason says:

    So, when this brazenly anti-American foreign policy comes to an end, what will we be left with? An Israel at threat from Iranian nukes? Chavez obtaining nukes from the Iranians? South Korea and Japan armed with nukes as a necessary counterbalance to North Korea and neighboring irrational threats? A world on the cusp of a third world war due to nuclear proliferation and rhetoric from rogue dictators with atom bombs and an Islamic mentality?

    What this administration does today may spell disaster for the conflicts of tomorrow. What only needed to be small scale conflicts (ex. destroying Iran’s nuclear facilities) may grow far more volatile and destructive in the cost to human lives.

  6. bobbys says:

    If i was in the military i would disobey any orders to shoot at an Israelite..

    I dont care if he was flying a plane or carrying a sign at a town hall i would not shoot!!

  7. VMAN says:

    And what happens when a brave pilot simply say no and breaks away from engaging the Israelis? Do we have a long and high profile show trial? Is this the crisis that Plugs Biden was talking about?
    When I think if the thousands of Jews in this country that voted for the idiot I think I want to puke.

  8. proreason says:

    Zigi doesn’t exactly look like a tender-hearted liberal, does he?

    But what is a liberal who doesn’t have a tender heart anyway?

    Answer: a Communist

  9. neocon mom says:

    I suppose we could do this but it might seriously compromise the meaning of the word “ally”.

  10. Robert Wesolowski says:

    Ziggy was a hawk National Security Advisor in the Carter Administration. He was not the SecState.

    During the first Gulf War, Israel demanded the IFF or “International Friend or Foe” codes for their aircraft to hunt and kill SCUD launchers. We declined because of the coalition that had been assembled with Saudi Arabia basing our forces. If you fly in US controlled airspace during a conflict without the proper IFF codes you will be shot down.

    So, are Brzezinski’s comments different from Cheney’s actions as SecDef in the H W Bush administration? I see them as different only in that the comments are public while the administration’s actions were unstated except to the IDF. The result is the same – prevention of Israeli involvement. Politically incorrect and diplomatically correct?

    • SinCity says:

      First of all, your terminology is wrong, IFF is not “International Fried or Foe” it is “IDENTIFICATION Friend or Foe”. Secondly your analysis is completely wrong. You are comparing IDF aircraft going on SCUD hunts during the first Gulf War to today’s situation where Israel exercising its right to not be a nuclear wasteland for eons, due to Iranian nuclear terrorism… nice try though.

    • proreason says:

      “So, are Brzezinski’s comments different from Cheney’s actions as SecDef ”

      Oh yeh.

      Ziggy and Cheney are twins. Two peas in a pod.

      Ziggy was a humble servant of the weakest President of all time, until now. Some hawk. Now he’s a hawk against Israel, the closest ally of this country (but the greatest enemy of the administration). Next he’ll be advocating strafing the Tea Partiers.

      That’ll show us how tough he is.

    • Robert Wesolowski says:

      SinCity,

      Thank you for the nomenclature check. Were you more upset at the misuse of INTERNATIONAL or FRIED?

      NBC or Nuclear, Biologic and Chemical weapons are all WMD or Weapons of Mass Destruction. All of these weapons are addressed with the same degree of concern. During the Gulf War, the SCUDs were feared to have biological agents and chemical agents in their weapons payloads. We can argue over the efficacious use of the weapons but all are WMD. In any case, I was relating the decision of POTUS during the first war.

      Like it or not, it was the decision at the time. It was handled quietly and outside the MSM and within the 5 sides.

    • Robert Wesolowski says:

      Proreason,

      I have great respect for Mssrs. Brzezinski and Cheney. Ziggy was a hawk who recommended that Carter use force to prevent Khomeini’s takeover of Iran. He pushed against the detente agenda of Nixon/Ford as he felt that the policy had led to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and increased influence in the Mideast. Carter waffled between the advice of Brzezinski and his SecState Vance on Iran. Vance won on allowing Khomeini to assume control of the country.

      I did not realize that Israel is the closest ally of this country. Great Britain will be disappointed that she lost that honor followed closely by Canada then Australia then South Korea and Japan. If I actually thought about the ranking, I would think that Israel is one of the ten closest allies of this country after Germany but definitely before France. Israel beats France on style points and the ability to win wars.

      Cheney is a personal hero of mine since his time as SecDef. He killed the Navy A-12 program a week before Desert Storm as both General Dynamics and the Admirals in charge of the program had lied about costs and production issues. GD lost the contract and the Admirals involved retired within the week at a reduced pay grade. He is a man of honor and demands that honor from the men he leads.

    • SinCity says:

      Oh Robert, you are so observant! You caught a typo, I’m impressed. What I am unimpressed about is the depth of your thinking. First of all, you ably demonstrated your ignorance of avionic systems. IFF is a transmitter that displays a code on an air search radar. That code is interpreted by an operator as either a friendly aircraft or foe, hence the frieNd or foe part of the acronym. If there was any code sharing it would be the IDF telling American operators their “squawk” code. Generally speaking the only use the IDF would have knowing the American codes would be which aircraft are allied, but since the Iraqi Air Force was dispatched in relatively short order your whole argument is moot anyway.

      Thank you for your lecture on NBC warfare. The years I spent in the Navy training for that now seems incomplete. While it is true that the Iraqis possessed chemical and biological weapons (wait a minute… I seem to remember someone saying something about that a few years ago regarding Iraq… curious) the Israelis would have been effective SCUD hunters, however it still would not have stopped them from raining down on Tel Aviv. It was no secret, unlike how you suggest, that the coalition forces did not want the Israelis participating in combat operations, this was to keep the Syrians and the Saudis on board (duh!). What you got completely wrong is that there never was any threat from the US toward its ally Israel. If the IDF wanted to go SCUD hunting, they could have anyway. They didn’t participate in combat operations as a result of diplomatic negotiations between the US and Israel. There were no naked threats against Israeli airmen. Additionally Saddam knew if he used chemical or biological agents on Israel that he would bring the full force of the IDF upon him, and the coalition wouldn’t stop them. His reign as dictator would be over. You don’t think the Mossad didn’t know that?

      You are comparing two very different things. Your analysis is extremely shallow. Again, nice try though.

    • Robert Wesolowski says:

      Sin,

      You are very welcome for the lesson. From your time in the Navy, you realize that an aircraft that does not squawk to an IFF interrogation is fair game. The Israelis demanded the codes, we denied them. They were free to hunt SCUDs but without the codes, their aircraft would become bogies.

      “Give me the codes.”

      “No.”

      “Give me two Patriot batteries.”

      “OK.”

      Diplomacy? Sure.

      By the way, do you really feel that Hussein feared the IDF during the buildup to Desert Storm? The SCUD attacks came after the massive airstrikes of day 1. Wouldn’t your analysis lead you to believe that Hussein had more to fear from the half million troops, airmen and sailors to the south than from the IDF? Yes, we had some French but they were there for the parade.

      You pose as the tactician. Which poses the greatest immediate threat, the guys that are throwing Weasels and Tomahawks at you or the guys on the sidelines?

      By the way, this has been a nice aside to the original bit on ZB. Should he have said what he said? Not in those words. Truth is that he is right in that we act as a barrier between Israel and a strike on Iran. The scenario has Sarajevo writ in big letters all over it. Countries like kids can’t do whatever they want.

      Unless they are North Korea.

    • SinCity says:

      Oh Robert, you should go back to Kos so you can pretend to be the smartest guy in the room. In the air war during the first Gulf War, there were few BVR engagements. This is because the RoE dictated that you had to be sure that the target was a “bogie”. Had the IDF went SCUD hunting, the Americans and the Brits would not have shot them down, because the IDF aircraft would not have vectored toward them in a threatening manner, and they would have gotten a visual confirmation on an unknown aircraft before engaging in a dogfight.

      Your view on the diplomacy of the day is overly simplistic. The whole reason Saddam shot SCUDS at Israel was to bring them into the fight, to break up the coalition. He also wanted to bring other Arab states onto his side of the fight. However, he also knew that if he armed the SCUDS with the chemical or biological agents he possessed and dropped them on Tel Aviv, that Israel would come at him with everything they had and it would be over. However, the coalition was a UN mandated group. Even though they had the numbers, he knew that he can manipulate the UN. So, no, he didn’t fear the coalition as much as Israel.

      What makes your comparison between then and ZB’s assinine comments today completely wrong, is that during the first Gulf War there was no threat of agression to our ally, Israel. What I found most interesting about your last post is that you feel that the Iranian nuclear facilities shouldn’t be destroyed. You would rather have Iran possess fissile material than deny them that capability. So you’d rather have New York, Washington DC, Los Angeles, Chicago, or Tel Aviv vaporized before anything is done about the threat?

    • proreason says:

      “I have great respect for Mssrs. Brzezinski ”

      Ziggy just proposed shooting down the planes of an ally of this country.

      I have no further questions.

    • SinCity says:

      That is exactly the point I was trying to make proreason. Robert was making a false historical comparison between the RoE of the first Gulf War, and the assinine statement by ZB.

  11. canary says:

    I’m a bit behind, but get daily alerts on Israel, but recently, in good faith, they have been giving more areas to the Palistines, but it has not appeased the terrorists. I think ultimately Obama has not broke intent from trinity church and his organizers that they are anti-Israel to the bone. His fellow organizers did not like the Jews buying stores in Chicago either. I can’t believe how many voted for him. Must have been ignorant. Israel, must not trust Obama. Period.
    Even on his first visit to Kenya his relatives complained about the Jews there.

  12. Tater Salad says:

    Sounds like this moron should get a job with the Obama administration since he doesn’t like American planes…….just like Obama:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVxwb58XfZA

  13. Petronius says:

    “I did not realize that Israel is the closest ally of this country. Great Britain will be disappointed that she lost that honor followed closely by Canada then Australia ….”

    On the contrary, perhaps the closest ally to the USA –– up until last week –– was little Poland. That alliance is now shredded, as public anger builds demands to withdraw Polish troops from Afghanistan. Apart from Poland, America’s most dependable allies of late have been the Aussies and Canucks. But Canada has been put off somewhat by Secretary Napolitano’s unfortunate remarks.

    The alliance with Britain is a far cry from what it used to be, especially after the series of deliberate insults by Nerobama, the Empress Armtonia, and their retinue, a series capped by the diplomatic blunder of relocating the Uighurs from GITMO to Bermuda without informing the British government, without so much as a by-your-leave.

    And Angela Merkel almost bust a gut listening to Nerobama rake Germany over the coals in his Holocaust speech. If looks could have killed, Nerobama would have died that day.

    Not only the Poles, but also the Czechs and other Eastern Europeans feel betrayed by the USA, and rightly so. The Japanese realize they must now take the lead in dealing with North Korea. As for Israel, the American alliance is clearly finished, at least for the foreseeable future.

    Far more important, therefore, than the pecking order among America’s allies is the incredible amount of damage that Nerobama has inflicted on these alliances in such a short span of time. Allies to Nerobama are like young girls to a rake––they last while they last. It remains to be seen whether a future president might repair some of this damage. We can only hope.

    • proreason says:

      Chaos.

      Some find it useful.

      There can be no doubt about what our boy king is doing.

    • Rusty Shackleford says:

      Yup, and just like the little sh*t that he is, if he can’t have it, then he’ll make sure that NOBDODY can have it, either or inflict so much damage that undoing it will be the life’s work of the next administration.

      But, by continuing down this path, it is becoming clear to me that only the blindly ignorant by choice will cast a ballot for the boy.

      At least, I hope so. We’re still looking at the rest of this term…and potentially another if he continues to divide us racially….thank you MSM.

      Though he doesn’t mind the MSM being his capos.


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