(By the way, Mr. Zuma has actually had up to four wives at one time. )

So on top of everything else he’s a masochist?

It’s good to know there are independent minds in the younger generation. Plus, seems to me it takes a bit of courage to come on a website like this and make comments with an audience that isn’t an easy sell.

Keep posting, and keep thinking.

Very dead on, Pro. Just last year, my school (not sure about other districts, but I’m sure it’ll spread) started a class called “African American Studies” (guess enough people complained about learning about “dead white men”–ha).

Curious, I glanced through a friend’s text book. 90% of it had to be concerned with slavery, evil white people, civil rights, and how discrimination continues today. (Sharpton got a nice page or two.) No mention of such things as the black slave traders, the Buffalo Soldiers, etc, with only a tiny section on gang violence.

Mostly: WHITE PEOPLE SUCK

AMEN!!! I couldn’t agree more.

I’ve been thinking about the question regularly since the apology tours of a few weeks back.

As I said, I just don’t think it’s in a human’s nature to be running around apologizing for anything. We just wouldn’t have survived as a species with that kind of a mindset.

Yet, hundreds of millions of West Europeans and North Americans and Australians are obviously obsessed with guilt.

Although your reasoning, Petronius certainly sounds good superficially, I just don’t think it is the root cause. The way I see it, except for a very few idealists, liberals are bigger racists, money-grabbers, debauchers and violenc-freaks than anybody who has come before them.

My conclusion, which I hinted at in my prior post, is that we have been TAUGHT to feel guilty.

And who might have had the motive to teach our impressionable young people for decades that everything the U.S. and Europe has done is not only wrong, but should be condemned? This in spite of the Renaisssance, the Enlightenment, abolishing slavery, the defeat of the dual tyranies of the 20th Century, and the gigantic benefits brought by the Industrial Revolution followed by a major effort to correct the innocent environmental damage created.

Well the usual suspects come to mind plus one. The usual suspects are the Communist / Oligarchists (including the ancient aristocracies who have lost all formal power but not their wealth in the last 2 centuries). And the “plus one” comes to mind because, for some mysterious reason, there seems to be no guilt whatsoever when it comes to the Jewish people, who are the single population most deserving of western guilt. The “plus one” is the muslim world.

Remember, patriots and conservatives are only part-time politicians (Eisenhaur, Reagen, Bush). Libwits are full-time politicians and “change agents” (FDR, JFK, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Pelosi, Obama, et al). That corrupt and pernicious group of indoctrinated and 100% self-serving “radicals” has been plotting and scheming for 70 years to get what they have now achieved in our country, and it all started with the subversive Communists of the 30’s, who now aligned with the Muslims in an Alliance of Evil to complete the destruction of the West.

Yes sir. We have been taught to hate the country by the greatest haters of all time.

Great question, Pro. Also a very difficult question. My own theory is that it stems from the unbounded guilt that the white Liberal feels before the downtrodden and oppressed, and especially before the huddled masses of the Third World. For many Liberals their guilt becomes obsessive, and when it does it spills over into a kind of masochism and a generalized hatred of Western Civilization and of his own country and race in particular.

There is no rational explanation for Liberal guilt. It is an emotion or attitude, but it is there nonetheless. His guilt may have something to do with his belief in equality, a belief that is never justified by conditions in the real world. And the fact that his spending programs and social programs seldom do these people any good he takes as further evidence of malice/greed/racism of white reactionaries, which hardens his attitude of hatred toward his own race.

The moral disarmament that the Liberal feels before these peoples renders him incapable of defending Western Civilization against encroachments or threats from that quarter, e.g. his refusal to act when faced with mass migrations and colonizations of his own homelands. Similarly, he will readily submit to being humiliated, kicked, and beaten about by some lunatic black racist like Rev. Jeremiah Wright because the Liberal believes that somehow he deserves this treatment.

You are certainly right about dating this phenomenon to the first half of the 20th century, as this is something new in history. Nobody in the world felt this way in the early 1900s or earlier.

“while I cannot defend the atrocious acts of many a white explorer”

Virtually all primitive cultures are extremely violent. The mortality rates from war / inter-tribal conflicts are much higher than any formal war throughout history.

“The one thing that the white man did too efficiently was to exploit other races”

No more efficiently than any other race on any other contintent. Slavery in the westerm world has traditionally been far less prevalent than in other parts of the world, including in the old South.

And the US was the only country to ever shed blood to abolish slavery.

In a sane world, the West and particularly USA would be heralded as most humane people of all time.

But that doesn’t put a hundred million in Jesse Jackson’s pocket, does it? And it doesn’t get half-African man elected to the presidency, does it?

The next question, is why does this country and the West wallow in self hatred? Self hatred isn’t a natural part of human nature. We couldn’t have evolved with that in our make-up. And I don’t know the full answer……but I have a hunch that you could find out if you could chat with hard-core Communist theorists from the 1940’s and 50’s.

I’d say “already have”.

Although fraught with many unsavory and horrible acts throughout history, I seem to recall that the white man, specifically, the Western Eruopeans and later, the Americans, have been responsible for 99.9999% of all major inventions and world-changing devices.

I do tip my hat to China, but for now, I’m talking about the development of western civilization. Such things as the sailing vessel, the steam engine, the light bulb, the telephone, farm implements,mass production, the automobile, airplanes, the computer and, thanks to Algore, the internet.

That’s just a paltry few but major things that built a civilization the likes of which the Earth had never seen. Granted, it brought about the nastiness of pollution, labor problems and child labor. Also new kinds of tariffs, laws and regulation of a new form. But from the good aspects, it would seem that without the technology, humans would be plowing a couple of acres every year to grow what they could eat.

I’m not going to debate the good or the bad of it as I am obviously a product of that rise in technology. But, while this evil white man was creating and exploring a world, the black man was making Clovis points in Africa. And while I cannot defend the atrocious acts of many a white explorer, I have to ask, if any other race had the capabilities that the Western European man had, would the outcome have been any different? I say no.

It was the natural course of human nature to explore and to conquer. And, being as the evolution of man is not nearly over, there is much more of the story to be written. But the Western European peoples learned a long time ago that you must protect what you have or it will be taken from you. Plus, you must go out and get because ain’t nobody gonna just bring it to you.

I submit that white people are wired differently. For good or for bad. I’m not debating that point. I am merely saying that our ideas of democracy and fair competition came out of generations of exploring, surviving and exploiting whatever resource was available. Be it wildlife, land or even other people.

We have also evolved to realize that enslaving others is wrong but somehow, although we weren’t the first or only race to enslave other peoples, we seem to get our noses rubbed in it regularly. Yet, it was this same Western people who actually, and finally declared slavery wrong. No other group of people has done that. And if you think I’m wrong, check out the far east, or even Haiti for that matter and their little slave trades. And there’s plenty more where that came from.

Indeed, I do not see, ever, where any nation on the continent of Africa has produced a fair, equal society of any kind. Let alone a stable government. Dictatorships, brutal autocrats, gangsters gone wild….you name it. South Africa had hope. It really is beautiful country. But that’s all gone now.

The one thing that the white man did too efficiently was to exploit other races. And although down through history, the Romans, the Egyptians, the Czars and the natives of Africa too…and premiers of Russia, the leaders of China, all over the world from year one, slavery has existed….somehow it is all the white man’s fault? I disagree. Yes it was wrong then…it’s wrong now. But let’s just watch what happens when those oppressed people try to govern themselves. Reality TV got nuthin on them.

BBC NEWS | Africa | SA’s Zuma ’showered to avoid HIV’
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4879822.stm