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No Word From Cuba About Aid To Haiti

From Cuba’s Granma:

Devastating earthquake plunges Haiti into tragedy

January 13, 2010

SANTO DOMINGO.—The devastating earthquake that shook Haiti has once again plunged this impoverished nation into tragedy as we go to press. The magnitude of the disaster is as yet unknown to the international community due to the collapse of communications.

The bits of news received in the Dominican capital are increasingly alarming, and refer to the destruction of a huge part of the infrastructure in the capital of Haiti, the poorest country in the hemisphere, PL reports.

The first photographs published in the Dominican press showed part of the disaster’s impact, with images of numerous collapsed buildings, including the emblematic National Palace, the seat of government. The buildings housing Parliament and the Cathedral of Port-au-Prince also suffered considerable damage.

Haitian diplomatic sources affirmed that President René Preval is alive, but no further details about his situation are known.

The Haitipal television channel in Port-au-Prince reported that the Ministries of Finance, Labor, Communication and Culture were also seriously damaged.

The source reported that the hospital in the residential area of Petion Villa outside the capital crumbled, but no further information about injuries was known.

The United Nations issued a press release saying that its facilities in Port-au-Prince suffered serious damage and several of its workers are missing.

As this article was being written, information on deaths and injuries was not available, but humanitarian sources believe that these are high.

In the Dominican Republic, the Seismological Institute of the Autonomous University of Santo Domingo said that the earthquake was strongly felt in several parts of the nation, which shares the island of Hispaniola with Haiti.

The institute’s director, Eugenio Polanco, said that the earthquake was the worst that the country had experienced since 1946, which measured 8.1 degrees on the Richter scale.

The director of the Emergency Operations Center, General Juan Manuel Méndez, announced that "Plan Lightning" had been implemented, which included the mobilization of the armed forces to help the population and ensure safety and order.

According to the U.S. Geological Institute, the earthquake measured 7.0 on the Richter scale and occurred at 16:53 hours local (21:53 UTC).

Its epicenter was located 15 kilometers southwest of Port-au-Prince, at 18.45 degrees latitude north and 75.44 degrees west, with a depth of 10 kilometers, according to that source.

The institute reported that two aftershocks were felt, varying in intensity from 5.0 to 4.5 degrees on the Richter scale.

Meanwhile, several countries in the region have announced the start of preparations to send aid, including Venezuela, Nicaragua, Argentina and the United States.

We have re-read this article and scoured the rest of Granma’s website for any word on when Cuba is going to send its world renown doctors and oft-extolled disaster recovery team to Haiti.

After all, remember all the grief President Bush got for not allowing these experts to come to New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina?

But still no word. Even Castro’s ‘Reflections From Fidel’ blog is silent on the subject.

It’s just the US who will do anything substantive – as always.

This article was posted by Steve Gilbert on Wednesday, January 13th, 2010. Comments are currently closed.

83 Responses to “No Word From Cuba About Aid To Haiti”

  1. canary

    I hope the Clinton’s assets there are okay. All those vacations there after he left office and his new UN assignment to pay for those visits. Interesting to see how Bill’s visit plays out.

  2. White_Polluter

    That F—‘in Bush. Obviously this is his fault.

    I would have thought our doctors are too busy removing healthy tonsils from patients. I can’t imagine that they have time to help with the rescue efforts.

    With the wonderful health care available in Cuba, I’m sure that Fidel and Michael Moore have everything covered. In fact, maybe Mr. Moore could focus his next mockumentary on the Cuban response to this disaster as compared to Mr. Bush’s inept handling of Hurricane Katrina. He wouldn’t have to bring in Gov. Blanco’s role in Katrina at all, he could just blame Mr. Bush for everything. As a bonus, maybe Al Gore could drop by and explain why global warming (caused by Mr. Bush, of course) was really at the heart of both of these disasters.

    • miguelthejoe

      I may use your nonsense if I find myself entertaining a couple of drunk morons of your ilk, but in case anybody picks on your BS to inform themselves (Fox News is off or something) I leave here some facts on this issue. Cuba has 400 doctors in Haiti (which is 20% of all doctors in this country) helping with the great need since the hurricanes. On top of that they sent another 30 after the earthquake.

    • Rusty Shackleford

      Wow, 400 doctors.

      Do they use stethoscopes and such, or do they figure a good blood-letting will work?

      Come on Miguel. Hurray for Cuba. Yeah, such a great nation. Where do you live? In the US or in Cuba? And why, please?

      Why are you so defensive of such an oppressive nation? The people may be very accommodating, but their government definitely is not. I’m afraid I don’t understand your position at all.

    • jobeth

      Rusty, I’ve waited all day to see if he answered any of your questions.

      But no matter how hard I try all I hear are…crickets…

      * I’m in Florida and we have crickets in winter…and it’s warmed back up here lol *

      Hard to answer the really hard questions, isn’t it Miguel?

    • Rusty Shackleford

      Well, jobeth, I don’t really care. Wheels spinning in the mud. When you ask the direct questions like that, they are often met with silence or an ad hominem accusation. Maybe he can only log on for a couple of hours when the electricity’s on, or he has to hide his satellite dish from the policia. It doesn’t matter. As you said, the Cuban people are tough, good-natured and very community oriented. Their government, as you stated, is not.

      But to defend it is to defend crime, cruelty and man’s inhumanity to man.

      They preach there that the US is evil and that every US citizen is a Cadillac driving selfish madman. Yet, they come in their makeshift boats and overloaded rafts and often die just to taste freedom. I do not see much of the same heading from the shores of Florida to escape to Cuba.

      Right now, Fidel is working hard on the math problem of how to keep his legacy alive when he takes the long dirt-nap. His brother may not work out. So, he’s panicking a little. In my most wonderful dreams, I would love to see it open up to capitalist ventures, carefully crafted so that money can make its way into every sector of the country, so that it can be a free nation and one of the best vacation spots in the world. Like…in the 40’s before Fidel came and took everyone’s ice cream away.

      Fidel is the characteristic dictator…preserving something that few people understand and even fewer people want. Benevolent? Hardly. He’s as evil as they come.

    • White_Polluter

      Miguel-

      Nice name calling. My ex wife is much more inventive. Now to the topic at hand.

      About the 400 doctors- Post farther down seems to clear this up for me. Maybe I’m taking this the wrong way, but you and other liberals on this thread seem to imply that the Cubans rapid response of the 400 doctors shows how they stepped up to the plate and beat the mighty satan to the punch, thus showing how superior their system is and how much more compassionate Cuba is. As explained by the poster father down, and he seems to be a liberal also, the doctors were already in the country. Great. I’m happy the Cubans provided medical care before the earthquake. Hats off to Cuba for this. I’m sure the Haitians appreciate it. But its kind of like comparing apples to oranges when you look at disaster response to disaster aid.

      Let’s wait a month, get the total figures of disaster aid, and the we can see who provided more on a per capita basis. Again, I know where I’m placing my bets.

  3. lunaticcringeradio

    well i made the comment on another website and they completely went batty and missed the whole point i was trying to make.
    i said that since the UN in haiti had been destroy and their workers killed in it, that maybe haiti has a chance to dig itself out from poverty since the UNs progressive socialist experiment hasn’t done a bit of good to help things down there.
    i also mocked the fact that these massive earthquakes are always being hogged by these smaller countries and they should share them with us right about the middle of the eastern seaboard.
    i hope this site has the integrity and fortitude to support free speech even thought it might be offensive to some for the ideas to be hashed out in debate.

    i’m just curious to see how many people get the point i’m trying to make.

  4. tranquil.night

    This can’t be good for that little hamster dictator hugo chavez either, who was pouring investments into Haiti. The little Latin American Bloc over there is already in dire straits.

    While in Haiti, Clinton became fascinated by the voodoo religion and culture; he saw a ceremony in which a man rubbed a burning torch all over his body without getting burned, and a woman bit the head off a live chicken. “I’ve always been fascinated by the way different cultures try to make sense of life, nature and the virtually universal belief that there is a nonphysical spirit force at work in the world that existed before humanity and will be here when we all are long gone.” http://swampland.blogs.time.co.....z0cW2LjjNj

    From what I’ve studied, the place has been a multi-generational tragedy and stronghold for mass-supported corruption and injustice since its independence. It’s probably host to the most teachable moments in history about how Liberal “Intervention” and “Peacekeeping” operations with the UN so epicly fail. God be with the innocent in such a Godless land.

    • jobeth

      “This can’t be good for that little hamster dictator hugo chavez either, who was pouring investments into Haiti. The little Latin American Bloc over there is already in dire straits.”

      Oddly enough, Fox just reported (1/15 -1:30P) that there has been a strong earthquake off the coast of Venezuela. About a 5, is the first report.

      Ummm, now the hamster will really be in trouble. Thank goodness he is friends with Castro!

    • tranquil.night

      Hey I’m a nobody, which has its advantages in not being bound to the normal verbal filter that others must maintain.

      Therefore I get to say this: I don’t believe God acts in vengeance, however I know what happens to people, cultures, and nations that ‘make their pact’ with the Deceiver and the Deceiver’s deceitful Ideas. Needless to say fortune historically never seems to be with them in the end.

      I don’t know for sure. You have to be comfortable with answering the question: does everything – even seemingly random death and destruction at the hand of natural disaster – happen for a reason? Not really appropriate thoughts for this venue I know (nebulous young mind), sorry.

  5. lunaticcringeradio

    tranquil.night are you kidding
    i’ll bet you a paycheck that hugo chavez is going to rush over there and pretend to help these people to demonstrate how superior socialism is to american capitalism, and our american media will praise him. remember sean penn in the boat after the hurricane, same thing.

    • Steve

      LCR, please use proper punctuation, capitalization, etc.

      It will make your comments easier to read.

      Thanks!

    • TwilightZoned

      “i’ll bet you a paycheck that hugo chavez is going to rush over there…”

      I was thinking along the same line but took it further. Barry and Chavez will be putting their two little heads together. Unfortunately that still only makes two out of a dozen for brains.

      Plus here’s another “crisis” to further the goal of imploding our economy. Not that I have a problem helping people in a truly devastating event. But what a great way to manipulate even more behind the scenes.

    • jobeth

      TwilightZoned…That’s right, we mustn’t ever waste a good crisis according to this administration.

  6. Reality Bytes

    “For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in.” – Jesus Christ

  7. lunaticcringeradio

    my shift key is broken.

  8. Steve…
    “After all, remember all the grief President Bush got for not allowing these experts to come to New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina?”

    Offered but not meant to be accepted. Castro knew this, and would not have considered such a thing but for the absolute knowledge he would be turned down. In this circumstance the offer would have been accepted with much passion.

    As always with communists the words ring hollow.

    • LBeebe

      While I am not in complete agreement with the Cuban system, as a Cuban-American, I beg to differ. Cuba has a history of giving even before Castro, Cubans give what they don’t even have for themselves. Americans are also generous to a fault. We should look at the human spirit and how despite adversity it finds ways to contribute.

    • jobeth

      LBeebe , When we talk about Cuba…we are not talking about the Cuban people. We know the Cuban people are a good people.

      It’s Castro and his communist minions we are referring to. They have oppressed the Cuban people so they have our backing where they are against him. A whole generation now has grown up under his thumb who know nothing else. If they ever got a taste of freedom I am sure they would be willing to fight for it.

      Judging most Cubans by Castro would be like judging most Americans by Obama. They are not the same thing…in either case.

      However the ‘Cuban system’ at least for the moment is communism. NOT a good thing. Especially for the Cuban people.

  9. Liberals Demise

    Castro will offer to empty his jails on Haiti in return for a few used ’55 Chevy parts for the Presidential Lowrider.

    I did notice that dingleBarry responded faster to this disaster than he did for the Tangled Underwear mishap on Christmas Day.

  10. pdsand

    Well, I learned that the State of Mississippi got hit by Hurricane Katrina because it has the confederate battle flag as part of its state flag. And that the U.S. got hit by Katrina in general because of man-made global warming. So what did Haiti do to deserve this?

  11. ocoee

    “Cuba said its existing field hospitals in Haiti had already treated hundreds of victims.” – from CBC News
    http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/.....quake.html

    Cuba is already there. They have been there awhile. You all are a bunch of short-sighted fools. And I bet you have not donated a dime to help these poor people in Haiti. I hope you at least have the decency to be ashamed of yourselves.

    • BigOil

      You’ve got us pegged ocoee. We sit around, hoping to one day shed our conservative nature and develop into a sanctimonious liberal such as yourself. We dare to dream.

    • proreason

      Well, i don’t want to be short-sighted, but if it’s good enough for Cuba to let it’s existing assets suffice to meet a once-in-a-lifetime catastrophe, why shouldn’t the U.S. do the same thing?

      We have thousands of people who were in Haiti when the Earthquake hit, and they are helping out, just like Cuba’s folks are.

      According to ocoee, there is no need to crank out any more help.

      Thanks for the advice ocoee.

      You’re on top of it.

    • Liberals Demise

      As a nation, we’ve spent “B”illions on Haiti and Cuba spent how much?
      (crickets)

    • tranquil.night

      Ocoee, if you have even donated yourself rest assured your help amounts to about the equivalent of a dime. Sadly however it was still enough apparently to buy you the right to come in here on your high horse (and abruptly get shot down).

      The year is 2010. Port-au-Prince was an over-bloated nightmarish city of hell on earth living in the dark ages. Haiti’s GDP is 80% foreign aide and 20% mangoes and cocaine. Nothing changed (in fact we just made it worse) when Clinton went in there and now we’ll make it worse AGAIN by rebuilding Haiti AGAIN for them.

      We highlight these points not to be critical or insensitive of the people and their plight but because these are the real reasons why this tragedy happened. No I’m not saying Earthquakes are preventable, but 1st world modern CAPITALIST countries weather things like this with considerably less loss of life because they have the tools and resources to anticipate and respond to the disaster. America’s complete and collective inability to acknowledge the reality during these types of situations is absolutely insane.

      The international community never wants us around when we’re preempting or stopping self-inflicted human suffering like IRAN, Iraq, or even for our national defense like Afghanistan. Oh, but when the great Storm Gods and Earth Gods and whatever Gods inflict mass damage and death then open the pocketbooks because they can’t be quick enough to tell us how we need to donate our money, our achievements, and our sacrifice.

    • MinnesotaRush

      Thank you, tranquil (and others)!

      I couldn’t have said it better.

      Besides our money .. and prayers .. oddly, our group just finished putting together meals for children in Haiti this past Saturday. Guessin’ they’ll need them even more now.

      Maybe ocoee could fill us in on what his (likely) pal, Michael Moore, has done for these poor souls currently. Afterall, all that money he gained thru evil capitalism is tainted – maybe he could give it all. Ha, ha.

    • jobeth

      Seems the drop by libs don’t want to defend their comments.

      With any luck, maybe they will come to the realization that there is no defense and just go away with concepts to digest that might be a bit exotic to them.

      But at least a seed may be planted so when they grow up they will understand why personal responsibility and less government is a good thing.

    • Liberals Demise

      jobeth……..their twisted mindset leaves no room for seeds to be planted.
      But I keep a football bat handy for such occasions!

  12. Railguy

    You wrote: “We have re-read this article and scoured the rest of Granma’s website for any word on when Cuba is going to send its world renown doctors and oft-extolled disaster recovery team to Haiti.”

    You didn’t look very hard. I put two words into Google (Cuba and Haiti) and found this:

    http://www.ain.cubaweb.cu/idio.....ahaiti.htm

    There were already over 400 Cubans offering assistance to Haiti before the quake including 344 medical personnel. Don’t let a little thing like facts trip you up.

    • Rusty Shackleford

      Ah, there you have it then. A communist-run newspaper just “telling it like it is”, right?

      By virtue of where you get your “facts”, I am inclined to think you believe everything Castro says, too. Why not, you have no reason to doubt him, do you?

      And if the “news” from Cuba-run propaganda is actually true, one would also think that the commie-loving US mainstream media would be fawning all over them reporting same and yet, it’s not. How odd.

      Facts never bother me rail-head. And thanks for pointing out that which is fact vs. fiction.

    • MinnesotaRush

      I have two very good friends who happen to be Cuban and have friends and relatives still in that Castro-hellhole.

      They would tell you that the average citizen in Cuba doesn’t speak highly of the Cuban healthcare system.

      The very naive’ and politically slanted Mr. Moore was shown what Castro wanted to show him for his “documentary”. The average Cuban can’t get an aspirin!!! .. much else!!!

  13. Railguy

    Here’s the headline from the link above:
    Cuba Considers Helping Haiti A Priority
    HAVANA, Cuba, Jan 13 (acn) Cuban Foreign Affairs Minister Bruno Rodriguez said helping Haiti was a priority following a devastating earthquake that caused huge human and material loss in that country.

  14. White_Polluter

    Is pravda, no? Website is pretty impressive…might want to check the typos, though. Luckily, the vaunted Cuban healthcare is much better than the proofreading dept. at the Cuban News Agency.

    Speaking of news, this website does seem to be very reliable, just like CBS, who reported on the Bush National Guard Scandal…..oh, wait. I’m sure it will be confirmed by the NYT, right after they finish reporting on John McCain’s mistresses.

    Cuban News Agency……Is that Keith Olberman’s vehicle nowdays?

    The google can be a pretty impressive resource, but with all things on the web, sometimes it takes a bit of cognitive thought to connect ideas and sources and evidence and reliability. If you’re not careful, pretty soon you’ll be believing things like government spending primes the pump and government interference in contracts between two parties really isn’t a violation of the Constitution.

  15. puabijan

    According to OTHER sources early Wednesday morning there were already 400 Cuban medical workers in Port Au Prince with their set up field hospitals. I believe that is more than what Wells Fargo has promised, $100.000!!! loooooooooooooool

  16. podpoet

    What about this? ….

    http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=18130

    It says Cuban doctors were already setting up a field hospital before most other nations began to lift a finger.

    • Liberals Demise

      Havana Times?
      The mouthpiece of Castro?
      Geezus!!

      I’d sooner believe that the Cuban Carnival was in Haiti with its’ Three Ring Circus. Hence the tents already there before anyone lifted a finger.

    • BigOil

      In other news from the Havana Times – the trains are all on time and there is a chicken in every pot.

    • MinnesotaRush

      … and the elections are this May; and the press is completely free and uncensored …

    • jobeth

      If you want a chuckle, read the blogs on this site.
      By the sound of it, kool aid must be on sale there.

      As a side note…interesting howmany names are “english” sounding. One might wonder how they could get that many anglos to agree in such lock step.

      Ummm, never mind…it could happen…Look around us right here.

  17. Rusty Shackleford

    You’re missing the much bigger picture there, railguy. Check Haiti’s past, how it was destroyed financially and remains ENSLAVED by human flesh brokers. You might google “Haiti, slavery, human bondage, history” and see what you get.

    Where are Al, the pal, Sharptoon and Jesse, the jewel, Jackson when it comes to people of color in Haiti under the plight?

    While you’re at it, why don’t you go back to poking sticks somewhere else? You are going to lose every argument here and lose big.

    Have a nice day.

  18. White_Polluter

    Railguy-

    Ah, yes, facts. Of course, depends on where you get your “facts.” Read a little more on the website you referenced from the google. They have a very insightful lising of terrorists actions taken toward Cuba from 1990 to 2000. Seems pretty reliable, and pretty relevant in 2010……and pretty fantastic. I’d put the credibility of this website right up there with Dan Rather.

    The bigger point, which you miss by trying to mine the web for minutiae to buttress your point, is that the United States is a force for good in the world, and Fidel Castro and Che Guevara are forces for bad who have taken away life, liberty, and property from people far in excess of what you would expect from the normal human being residing on this planet (I’m guessing we probably spend time on the same planet because I know of no other that supports carbon based life forms–to answer one of your questions).

    Liberals are so funny when they try to argue with facts and the web magnifies this hilarity by a factor of 10. I once pointed out to one all the scandal and corruption of Bill Clinton, Jesse Jackson, Mel Reynolds, Dan Rostenkowski, Gerry Studds, William Jefferson etc. and he referred me to a website, I think it was called republicanofffenders.com or something like that. The site started with Mark Foley and then listed a bunch of people who were Republicans, but who were dogcatchers and chairmen of county Republican parties. Not at all on the level of senators and congressmen. He obviously didn’t think I’d check his link either, but I did.

    So in this case, getting your news from the Cuban News Agency rather than looking at the actual contribution is kind of like trying to equate malfeasance by a dog catcher to that of a senator. Silly, no?

    When you get a little older and have some more time, I’d recommend reading these things called books instead of the web. They will help you understand why stealing from Peter to pay Paul makes one very popular with Paul and why this is the preferred method of getting elected by Democrat officials.

    You know what? I’m glad the Cuban’s have 2 field hospitals (whatever that is) and I’m glad they have 400 people willing to help. It would be interesting to see the final tally in a month or so to see dollars and people helping Haiti by country. I know where I’d put my money, and it wouldn’t be on Cuba. But maybe I’ll be proven wrong. It’s happened before.

  19. proreason

    Cuba……the world’s leading humanitarian country.

    But it gets a pass for enslaving and killing it’s own population.

    • White_Polluter

      Pro-

      There you go again you lying Republican conservative scum, spreading your malicious falsehoods copped straight from Fox news all over the web. Cuba does NOT get a pass because of imprisoning its own population and executing political dissenters. No, it gets a pass because it gave birth to the great Che, who looks good on a T Shirt, and, after all, isn’t that what life is all about? Looking good?

    • MinnesotaRush

      Yeah .. that same Cuba that my Cuban friend would tell you of.

      The Cuba that would’ve killed his father except for a case of mistaken identity by Castro’s thugs. They dragged his father’s brother out to the countryside where they made him dig his own grave so that he could simply fall into it after they shot him .. which they did!

      That Cuba. That Castro.

    • jobeth

      “No, it gets a pass because it gave birth to the great Che, who looks good on a T Shirt, and, after all, isn’t that what life is all about? Looking good?”

      That statement explains it all! The liberal mindset is a puzzle to behold.

  20. White_Polluter

    Given the choice between Ward Churchill and Howard Zinn on one side, and Thomas Jefferson and James Madison on the other, I’d probably take the Jefferson Madison team at least 95% of the time.

    “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

    ‘Nuff Said.

  21. Rusty Shackleford

    My goodness, Pops Off/Railguy/ocoee, etc., you just do keep trying don’t you? Agitators Deluxe is looking for a guy like you who gets their facts straight from the MSM. That is, if you want to talk about kool-aid drinking. Seems when Steve clocks you out, you go to another computer and log back in under a new name. Guess you feel the need to be irritating. But, really, we’re not irritated other than with the fact that you will never “get it”.

    Every single poster here tends to avoid the emotionally laced ad-hominem arguments that people like you embrace. If you want a war on facts, we’re all for it. Given that our tax dollars so often go to work for humanitarian aide in every other country on the face of the Earth, you can say we’ve done our part. But many will do even more. Republicans, if you want to check, give of themselves by a margin of more than three to one when it comes to charity.

    Additionally, the US is sending National Guard units to Haiti to help out. Someone like you would naturally think they are doing it for military reasons…but you probably never served so you wouldn’t understand that the National Guard spends just about an equal amount of time helping out when natural disasters occur. But you won’t hear that from your beloved MSM.

    Just keep popping off and you will be shot down with everything you say or point you try to make. I might suggest you switch off your emotions and THINK instead of just FEEL your way through life. Conservatives are not the problem. Open your eyes and try to understand that our mindset is the result of years of observing and practical experience.

    I would surmise that yours is not.

  22. Rusty Shackleford

    And, for the record, please cite specifics about the US NOT being a force for good in the world.

  23. MinnesotaRush

    I am ALWAYS mindful of the reportings of a UN authority that was present in Korea at the Freedom Bridge (the spot that the North and South were to let their POW’s go).

    The distrusting North wanted their prisoners released first, which was done. Most typically, their prisoners were reasonably robust and able to cross that bridge to their home unaided – on their own.

    On the other hand, our men were LARGELY emaciated, feeble, starved and sickened. MANY .. needed help to make the crossing.

    With that picture in mind (amongst many), I become INFURIATED when foolhardy nitwits like o-blah-blah (and all of those of his ilk and beliefs and support) cast ANY of their anti-American – America is Bad – crap and apologies for America!

    They are seriously misinformed and sickened by their biases.

    As world leaders spoke of examples of “good in the world” .. wasn’t it Lady Margaret Thatcher that said, “if not America, then whom?”.

    God Bless America and its’ true Patriots!!!

  24. White_Polluter

    Pops Off/Railguy/ocoee, etc., please don’t go. Love hearing from you guys in case I missed something. If you have some real facts, I’d love to hear them, but Cuban News Agency is just not a name I trust. I hate to admit it, but I’d probably trust MSNBC more.

    There’s a lot of stuff that happens outside the U. S. No doubt there is, but you have to put things in perspective, and democracy and capitalism are, through their incentive mechanisms, the prime ingredients in the development of the modern world since 1775. Suggesting anything else is re-writing history.

  25. proreason

    “This same people fail to realized that in our own country for the last 25 years, more than 85000 Americans have died annually because they can’t pay for healtcare. ”

    bullshit.

    The study is laughable. First of all, the number the bogus study comes up with is 43,000, so you have doubled it.

    Secondly, they project 43,000 from 9, yes NINE, deaths in a small sample. Ludicrous.

    Thirdly, people who don’t have health insurance typically have a lifestyle well out of the mainstream….alchohol, crime, drugs, etc. All factors which have a baaaaad impact on health.

    You can’t get away with your adolescent nonsense here.

    Get a brain.

  26. Rusty Shackleford

    just like the Cubans are doing.

    And there lies the very basis for the failure of your position. Cuba is communist. Though it may come about that we will have to act like Cubans in order to just survive, once Barry is done wrecking our economy, which, I think is an ongoing, multigenerational process, for the here and now, capitalism suits me just fine.

    The reason Cubans have to do what they do is because capitalism is all but non-existent in Cuba. Do you see any car dealerhips there? How about chain grocery stores? How about even BOOK stores where the very book you just got done reading is allowed to be sold? And finally, why have so many of them risked their lives and died just to come to our shores?

    Honestly The-2, you need to think this through. Every single nation where communism is the form of government, you have oppressed people, living oppressed lives and hanging on by a thread. Dictators like Fidel Castro, Hugo “El Gauppo” Chavez, the little Dinky-Dink who runs N. Korea, Ach-I-need-a-job in Iran, all have a life of luxury, dictate to the masses to the end of having a third-world nation. I suggest you GO THERE and see how they actually live and what they are afraid of. Then, come back here and see how we live and what it is that we are afraid of.

    What’s amazing is every veteran I served with who had never been overseas and then sees how other countries operate are ALWAYS glad to get back to the states. ALWAYS. Why do so many people come to live here from other lands? Because you can make a living and nobody can just come and take your house, your car, your family away and whatever your political view or religious view, you can have that too. Sure, there’s prejudice….there’s bound to be…but try being a Christian (or just a westerner) in the middle east. You literally are at risk of losing your life.

    That’s why they come here.

    But your hero, Oblamma, wants to change all that. He’s an angry young man who never EVER toiled to earn a dime. Never knew what it meant to work to earn something, so he could save up and go buy something he really wanted. Since you are a reader, I suggest you read his “autobiographies”. But you need to be objective. You need to realize that much of it is fabricated. He’s a liar. A huge, unabashed liar and if you cannot see that, then you need to live and learn more.

    Perhaps you haven’t been challenged in school to think critically…that means to play devil’s advocate with even the thoughts in your head and then see which one makes the most sense vs. which one is the most emotionally pleasing.

    But good luck with your report on Cuba. I’m sure almost every college professor will give you high marks for your “objective and enlightening” opinion on one of the worst tragedies in human history known as the nation of Cuba.

    • proreason

      Talking about cuba really brings them out in droves, doesn’t it? So few other issues whip up their courage to come into the lion’s den.

      Apparently, they are so brain-dead that they really do believe it’s a worker’s paradise.

  27. White_Polluter

    Pro/Rusty-

    Excellent, I was going to write a reply, but you have covered almost everything. Two items:

    The 85,000 deaths from healthcare figure is new to me also. Boy, it sure would make debate easier if one could just whip up some figures in the microwave. I’d always heard 45,000, which I’d heard on the Medved show was an actual extrapolation from a joke of a study which originally came up with 22,000 deaths by comparing people who had insurance vs. those that didn’t which did not control for income or medical history. I have heard the 45,000 bandied about on MSNBC as fact, which is part of the reason one cannot trust much of what one hears on MSNBC.

    TheTrue2-

    You miss the point entirely if you think that nothing can be done about Cuba’s financial system. Check out the WSJ’s index of economic freedom published every year. The countries which are most free have the higher standards of living. This is not a coincidence. It all springs from something David Hume said, to paraphrase-first there must be law because from the law springs certainty and from certainty springs creativity. The point being that if men cannot be assured that they will benefit from their efforts, they will not make the effort. This is why Michael Moore will not be a respected political philosopher in 100 years. He gets this exactly backward. Capitalism is the moral choice for economic organization and communism (or Obamunism) is the immoral choice. And, as an added bonus, capitalists get to drive cars in any color.

    Glad to hear you are reading, though. All books are not created equal.

  28. Railguy

    White_Polluter: I know you must love baiting liberals. I’m not one and never have been. I could explain the difference between the socialism advocated by Marx and Engels on the one hand and pro-capitalist liberalism on the other, but that would require a genuine conversation between us which it seems clear to me you aren’t interested in. That’s fine, I know plenty of people who don’t agree with me but who are interested in civil debate and discussion.

    I’ll just sign off with one thought: This whole thread began with a claim that someone had “scoured” Granma looking for evidence that Cuba was offering humanitarian assistance to Haiti. When I offered evidence that it has and is offering such aid you complained that the Cuban News Agency I cited wasn’t “reliable.” Then why in the world were you looking at Granma if you don’t plan to believe anything that comes out of Cuba from a pro-government source?

    I’m sure you’ll have a brilliant riposte but I doubt I’ll be back to read it. Here’s why: I understand you hate the Cuban revolution and you believe capitalism is the ideal system of social and economic organization. Fine. I’m in favor of a socialist revolution. We disagree. Also fine. But whatever you think of Cuba, it’s role in providing medical care as well as free medical education for countries and peoples throughout the underdeveloped world is a fact broadly recognized, including by by many who share your view of the Cuban revolution. Because it is a fact, not an opinion. I’m not interested in debating that with you just as I’m not interested in debating whether the world is flat or not. Or whether God created the world in seven days or whatever other anti-scientific opinions you may hold that reject facts most people in the world accept. You’re free to express your views no matter how backward they are. But there are only 24 hours in the day; not enough to continue a dialogue of the deaf with you. Thanks for your time.

    • proreason

      “Fine. I’m in favor of a socialist revolution. We disagree”

      Disagreeing is when you want Italian food and I want Mexican.

      When you want to shove an ideology down my throat that will destroy the country, ruin my life, and turn my descendents into serfs, it isn’t a disgreement, it’s a pitched battle.

      Anybody that flat-out states they are in favor of a socialist revolution would do well not to place themself in the same room as I’m in.

      You are a nut and a menace to humanity.

      Like the Moron in the white house.

    • White_Polluter

      Railguy-

      Wow. You blew my mind. You want a socialist revolution. Let that sink in.

      I’m reminded of Sam Kinison’s old schtick where he is talking about not understanding homosexuality. He says, “how can a guy look at another guy hair a__ and say, yeah, I want some of that?” Its the same for me. How can another human look at the history of socialism/communism/totalitarianism control from the left and say, yeah, I want some of that?

      I don’t know if you are measuring the fact of Cuba’s providing healthcare to underdeveloped nations against the thousands of deaths from their socialist revolution and saying that’s a trade worth making. I don’t know if you are looking at the millions of deaths from Stalin/Hitler/Mao and saying yeah, that was worth it. I have to think that all the facts aren’t getting through.

      But either way, I don’t mean to be a dick, but the country I live in was founded on different principals and it does seem to me that as another poster pointed out, why not just leave this country if you want to change it that radically? I’m seriously interested in why. I’m not going to make a smart aleck comment or try to say you should leave this forum, and I don’t consider the time I’ve spent reading your posts a waste. I just don’t see how a reasonable human being can look at all the facts of history and come up with that answer because maybe there is a good answer to that that we conservatives are missing.

      But I think part of the problem we have, especially with Obama, is that he tries to say he agrees with the founders when he really doesn’t. You are honest. A socialist revolution has nothing to do with our country and the Constitution and I applaud you for admitting it. But Obama just out and out lies. He talks about freedom and then uses the government to confiscate private property. That is what socialism does and you can be all for it until your property gets stolen. Or, God forbid, you lose your life like millions have already done in the name of socialist revolution.

      I don’t enjoy baiting liberals, I am really trying to understand them. The 20% of Americans that call themselves liberals, I understand they are probably too far gone. But we need to educate the 40% of moderates and part of this debunking crap like socialism is good. OK, look at the record. Some healthcare for underdeveloped nations vs. 50 million deaths. Hmm, not a hard choice. The one good thing that may come from Obama if we had a fair press, is that the 40% will see what liberal rule means. Carter did this in the 70’s and it helped to make the country conservative for the next 30 years. In 3 years when interest rates are at 15% and we have suffered a couple more terrorists attacks, enough moderates will have realized this even thought the MSM will try to lay the blame at Bush’s feet. Eventually, the facts will get through. It may take 100 years and a lot of people will ignore them, but that’s my hope.

      I’d wish you good luck with that socialist revolution, but I wouldn’t really mean it. Socialist revolution vs. democracy & freedom, Pro is right, it’s a pitched battle.

      Pro-

      BTW, did you come up with that yourself? It’s really good. I’m adding it to my daily quotes section of my day planner, hope you don’t mind, I’ll give you full attribution.

  29. Rusty Shackleford

    Well, there are plenty of socialist countries to choose from. Pick one and go there. I’ll bet they’d be glad to have you.

    Another academician, it would seem. What exactly do you do?

    The time I’ve wasted here with you is a good reminder that I should stick with the books and leave web sites like this to people like you.

    Yes. Yes you should.

    • jobeth

      “Well, there are plenty of socialist countries to choose from. Pick one and go there. I’ll bet they’d be glad to have you. ”

      Curiously, they never go anywhere else. They just stay here and suckle off the teat capitalism all the while trying to kill her.

      If only they would go elsewhere.

      Great debate S&Lers…Y’all make me proud.

    • Rusty Shackleford

      In his last statement he said, “Nor will I be taking your suggestion to move to another country. Not a very original thought. I heard that the first time I marched against the war in Vietnam.”

      Well, I wasn’t trying to be original. If you don’t like capitalism, go someplace else that has trains and see how they do it there. I am reminded of another disillusioned fellow…who hated the US…..Lee….something….Lee Harvey Oswald I think it was…yes…only to return back to the US even more frustrated than before because even the Russians didn’t want him.

      Talk about not fitting in.

      And, marching against the war in Vietnam….oh…..*sigh*….. The bad, evil, capitalists oppressing the Khmer Rouge, the Viet Cong and Chiang Kai Shek (sp?). Another good deed that didn’t go unpunished.

      And, micromanaged by DEMOCRATS getting our own killed rather than trying to “win” the war, they wanted to use “escalation” to show that the US could meet and exceed any commie forces thrown our way. When politicians meddle in strategic war planning…that’s what you get, I guess. Now barry the arrogant wants to do the same. Idiot. And Johnson and his gang of merry thugs gave us the “great society” blueprint that has worked so well.

      The news dorks will only report that “O-blammo’s a military genius as well as an all-knowing scholar”.

      But, Rail-head is hoping for some of us to apparently see that “socialism is the way”. His highfalutin attitude is pretty up there with the self-proclaimed arrogant SOB’s who shake their heads at others because they are “too stupid”. He cannot really handle that we don’t think like him and that we never will.

      Been following the history of Rome a lot lately and I see parallels. Scary parallels. The power-grabbers most specifically.

      Hopefully, we can curb this irrational process where congress once again adheres to the law and maybe we can get rid of those who think socialism is what we really need, in spite of the wishes of their own constituents.

  30. Rip Cord

    Cuba should send it’s baseball team over to Haiti. It at least will entertain the troops. Anyone want to be treated by a Cuban doctor when you have another choice? As far as Cuba coming to the aid of Haiti the Greeks used to have a saying. “Physician heal thyself!”

  31. joeblough

    There is a difference between communism and benevolence.

  32. Liberals Demise

    Your mommy is calling you to come up from the basement and put you folded clothes away!!

  33. ptat

    Correct me please if I am wrong, but I heard that we have sent $200 BILLION to Haiti in the past 5 years. If that is true, it all went to corruption, not to the people who live on $2 a day. Had they gotten that aid, that would have been $5,000 for every man woman and child per year. Of our tax dollars. I am not sending a penny to this hell hole, but I am praying earnestly.

    • White_Polluter

      ptat-

      I think you are wrong. That sounds way too high. Article referenced below says its about $800 million from 2004 to 2008 and I think O’Reilly said $3 billion since 1992. $3 billion is still nothing at which to sneeze, but its a magnitude away from $200 billion.

      Still, stable laws + democracy + freedom = wealth. Haiti is missing at least 2 of the first 3 and the question is how do we get them so Haitians can start living a standard that most in this hemisphere enjoy?

      http://www.boston.com/news/nat....._money_go/

    • ptat

      Thanks so much white polluter guy! Like most on this site, we just want to deal with the facts and follow the truth where ever it takes us!

    • tranquil.night

      “the question is how do we get them so Haitians can start living a standard that most in this hemisphere enjoy?”

      Yeah, in my head I’m paralleling Afghanistan which for centuries remained so tribal and in many ways insists on continuing that way. Eventually the people who want a modern life (either the children who grow up with knowledge of such a thing or the adults that don’t see incongruency with their religion and capitalism) clash with the people who want to keep drug farming or animal herding in their culture for generation after generation.

      That’s the all-important bridge-to-capitalism we hope to see in the world: the native people of a land demanding and believing in freedom and truth over their own lives. Like, ahem, Iran.

      Capitalism only works if it’s believed in, excersized honestly, and not intentionally corrupted into a social-fascist banana republic like Liberals love. If the great numbers of people in a land have no history or interest in modern lifestyles, then there’s nothing we can do unless we literally try and force our ways on them tyranically or with a tyranical ally. Clinton did that. The left LOVES doing it because they prosper (get new vacation destinations to rekindle marriages), while fooling the world into thinking they’re humanitarian and far-sighted.

      Just like everything else they’ve accused the Right of for the past 8 years, it’s always been the Left to historically have these corrupt interventionist excersizes that really skewer America’s reputation abroad. They ignore the real cries for help at hotspots in Iran because they can’t be blamed for intentionally ramping up tensions, (that’s just never the way of the left), or better yet – because we would be seen as imperialist. But again, when the time is right, it’s clear that they’re all-too-eager to spread America’s resources and (their) ideological influence around the world.

    • proreason

      Haiti can’t be fixed.

      I’m ok with some humanitarian aid after a catastophe, because it isn’t possible for the political crime families to steal the efforts of generous people.

      But once the crisis is past, and the aid becomes money instead of effort, every single dime will be stolen by the capos.

      So I wouldn’t give them a nickle in on-going assistance. Nor to any other country ruled by criminals.

  34. jobeth

    “the question is how do we get them so Haitians can start living a standard that most in this hemisphere enjoy?”

    The amount in question here isn’t nearly as important as what happens to that money once it gets to Haiti. I will have to agree with ptat here.

    Just willy-nilly throwing money over there is not the answer. It might make us feel good, but it does no good for the people. Nearly all that money is diverted to thugs and thug groups.

    Even aid given directly to the people there is ripped away from them by neighborhood thugs just as soon as the organization leaves.

    My cousin went down there to help in the 90s and he said he never saw such a sad situation.

    My suggestion is to send help ($) only via groups that have people on the ground that will be staying for a time.

    Large charities will probably operate as usual and unwittingly (or not…)just fatten the pocket books of the crime bosses there. This is the best thing that ever happened to those vermin. They are busy skimming as we speak.

    We must help…but very carefully. It has to go to those who need it and not the thugs.

  35. tranquil.night

    “They want us to be the World’s EMT but not the World’s Police” -STEVE

    EDIT: I’ve just seen that Steve, not Rush, called this. I bow to YOU, sir!

  36. proreason

    You’re right, puabijan. There is no comparison between Cuba and the United States.

    Cuba is a murderous thugogracy that tortures and kills its own population when it isn’t forcing them into poverty.

    The United States is the country that abolished slavery, defeated Hitler, defeated Communism, and lifted the lifestyles of the world by 10,000% in 200 years by making its citizens free.

    Thanks for reminding us.

  37. Rusty Shackleford

    Pube-i-jan said: “If US was that all might and good and humanitarian it would not had let its own citizens to perish in the past two hurricanes!”

    OK, I’ll bite.

    1) This must be why so many people get on makeshift deathtrap rafts and risk the waters to go to Cuba.
    2) This must be the stellar example of what the world thinks the US did.
    a)Cause hurrricanes [either by global warming or not letting Algore have more money]
    b)The general consensus that the US “let people die”

    Well, although it is the responsibility of the US, to some extent, to protect its citizens and to the extent necessary and beyond, it did so through the use of the emergency broadcast network (maybe you’ve heard of it) warning people to evacuate and by advising the state and local government to be ready. Nagin, the real focus of the problem, pretty much ignored all that and never mobilized anything in helping citizens leave New Orleans.

    Along with that, the government cannot protect citizens from themselves. Many people chose to stay. It was their folly. That’s like electing to stay and play golf in an electrical storm. You take your chances.

    Pube-i-jan you are sorely misinformed, an obvious card-carrying leftist who’s education is nearly complete. However, if you decide to really see the world as it really is without the emotional name calling (morons, go get a life, etc) then you might actually become more observant.

    Try this: Stop watching TV, reading People magazine and other sundry garbage that passes for news these days, try to think for yourself and try to figure out how things really work. Not how you THINK they work.

  38. proreason

    LBeebe, yours is a rational post without knee-jerk adolscent pro-communist mud-slinging.

    Good for you.

    Of course the United States should cooperate with any country or agency providing relief to that devastated country. Who wouldn’t?

    But this doesn’t illustrate in any way Obamy’s “better angels”. It’s a know-brainer. He gets zero credit. Actually, he gets negative credit because he is politicizing a service that should not be politicized.

    And as for setting a new example for U.S. diplomacy, when exactly has the United States not cooperated with other parties to bring humanitarian aid. I can’t claim to be an expert on the matter, but it would shock me to learn that we have EVER refused aid because we had to cooperate with a country we don’t have relations with.

  39. Liberals Demise

    “CHECKMATE”

  40. Rusty Shackleford

    OK.

    You’ve identified your base.

    My grandfather worked for the railroad for much longer than you. Scots-Irish immigrant who refused to join any union. Believed that a day’s pay should follow a day’s work. In many ways I agree with him. Not that unions don’t have their place, but many of them have grown power-mad and operate at the expense of the company they work for rather than the betterment of all.

    I, too, am union and I find it a cumbersome entity. The only purpose it has is to keep the management from running rough-shod over employees. My choices were, work here as a union member or don’t work at all.

    My comment was based on the (quite arrogant) attitude you have towards those of us with a conservative viewpoint. In my experience, those of you who protested Vietnam, were mostly troublemakers who had no problem reaping the benefit of growing up in the most prosperous time in our nation yet, were against donning the uniform to do military service. You realize, of course that in a socialist society, you would not have that luxury? You would have to do your protesting from within the military and socialist governments don’t much care for that.

    I served for many years and was glad to do it. And during that service, I learned that there were many ways to serve in the military back then without having to go to Vietnam.

    And remember, it was your liberal democrats who brought you the “great society” plan. Johnson, et al who blueprinted a way to make it so the black man would be held in bondage to society, and who Jackson, Sharpton, etc speak so fondly of. That’s all worked out so spiffily.

    You speak as an academician, regardless of your profession. So I apologize. I forgot that arrogance knows no specific line of work. You think socialism is a better way and I say then, at your age, you have no real clue. Somehow, something has caused you to to either be very angry or just hate the US in general. That is why I suggest you leave. Not because I’m looking out for your best interest but because I hate your guts and people like you and think you should just get the hell out of the US rather than try to destroy it from within.

    This is a nation of opportunity, but I’m gathering that your angst towards conservatives is that “we’re wrong and you’re right”. Well, good for you. I happen to like our system but find that many people use it for bad ideas. Every “social justice” program, based on socialism, has gone wrong…from welfare to food stamps to affirmative action. Every single one. The department of education prefers now to teach kids that “everyone is equal, everybody is just as important” when YOU KNOW that is patently untrue. So we graduate kids from high school who expect to have everything without ever having to lift a finger.

    I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you were some learned man who was just misguided. Instead, as it turns out, you’re just a socialist who hates the nation he lives in. Good for you. But again. LEAVE. Why must you desire to usurp what our nation was founded upon? Why do you think that a system that fails every time it’s tried will do better here? Because of smarter people? Better resources? A more benevolent mindset? What?

    It fails

    It fails

    It fails

    EVERY SINGLE TIME

    It’s one of those things that looks good on paper but it’s nothing more than a mental exercise. I have been all over the world and noted that even in the deepest, darkest places where communism and socialism are de rigor, there is a black market….CAPITALISM…in out-and-out defiance of “the system” in place.

    Your attitude and your desire is that somehow, everyone should have one car, one house, a job, as determined by the proletariat, and how will that ultimately work out? Sooner or later, you run out of other people’s money, as Europe has done. They sucked on our tit for generations only to find that their tax-base is ridiculous, medical care is getting rationed and everyone’s going broke.

    So you think THIS nation would do that better? How? With good intentions??? That is a ridiculously naive position.

    Your arrogant attitude is very telling of pretty much how socialists view people who desire a free society anyhow. Your words belie your belief that people need to be controlled and told what to do. And your dismissal of others is just indicative of how much you believe how much more you think you know than you actually do.

    That’s another reason why I tell you to leave. I certainly don’t want you here. Though there may be things we might agree upon here and there, overall you are sadly mistaken. Your statements about people baiting liberals–you say you are not one. I submit that in today’s world you are a stellar example of one, regardless of textbook definitions and that’s one of your problems. “Liberal” is a misnomer in the academic sense but in the current societal context it is YOU. Those who desire control over others, who believe they are the ONLY right ones. And apparently who believe it is the government’s responsibility to dole out your life.

    Go away. I’m sufficiently sickened by you and people like you. I work with one like you and he is the most unpopular guy in my company. Much like you, in fact. A product of the 60’s. Yet, growing up in a home that, until after WWII, was pretty much unheard of. Spoiled.

  41. White_Polluter

    Miguel-

  42. White_Polluter

    LBeebe-

    Thanks for the informative post. I’m going to take you at face value about the timeline of Cuban doctors. It explains a lot.

    Most of the Castro apologists on here point to these doctors as examples of Cuba’s fast response to the disaster. They imply that Cuba does disaster relief better than the United States. As your post documents, there is more to the story and blathering on about the 400 doctors already on the scene is an example of selective reporting. As Julian Simon said more than once, you have to examine the data, all the data.

    As I suggested way back at the beginning of this thread, maybe Michael Moore can do a documentary about this, presenting all the data in this case as opposed to his prior “films”, Then we can see how badly Cuba and the communist model has kicked our asses in this case. When all the data is viewed, maybe we Americans can see just where we have erred and can fix our shortcomings.

    But as for forging a new era of US diplomacy with Cuba, I’m afraid we’ll just have to disagree on this. I don’t think we want to give tacit approval to that regime. You and I would disagree about the very nature of that regime. I can guess your thoughts on that and mine, as well as most of the other posters here, are listed above.

  43. proreason

    I read this 3 times and can’t figure out what the hell the guy is saying.

    So I think he must be a liberal.

  44. Rusty Shackleford

    Pro, another verbose pseudo-intellectual. Stupid, but with good word usage.

    vendorx – As with most liberals, you fail to pass even the most basic of common knowledge tests. One needn’t do much investigating to find that Cuba has substandard living conditions with sub-standard healthcare and with doctors who are unfamiliar with modern technology. Or, if they are, have no access to it. Please give me the latest breakthrough medical treatment to come out of Cuba in the last century. No?

    As for the “ad-hom” well, you got me. Liberals would never do such a thing. And, due to the lack of response by miquel, I have to assume that he is unable to or unwilling to. Therefore, the argument is left hanging. And, as you freely admit, you have never been here before and are perhaps unfamiliar with the “throw a grenade in the room and close the door” type of BS that liberals like to do on this blog.

    It’s not here for you to be satisified with what is said or not, or even how it’s said. Your word-usage indicates that plain spoken English is cumbersome for you and that you prefer a loftier word as it’s probably more “specific and appropriate”. Well, fine. But you come off like an elitist snob. So, right back atcha, dude.

    Before you go scolding me about my apparent ignorance of “facts” perhaps you might like to ask instead where I’ve been in this great world. For me, Cuba’s existence as a third-world nation structured by a fascist dictator is common knowledge. I do NOT give them the benefit of the doubt except that Fidel Castro will do anything to further his pathetic agenda and if you are unfamiliar with such modus operandi, see Hitler, Stalin, Marx, Lenin, Kim Jong-Il, Mao, Idi-Amin, Chavez, Muammar al-Qadhafi, etc etc etc.

    Miquel was obviously defending Cuba. I simply asked why and where does he live to get context for his position. Simple questions. No answers. They come here, drop a bomb, and leave…so, you say by my pressing the issue, I’m to blame for some heinous political intolerance. Yup, you’re a liberal alright.

    Have a nice day.




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