SubscribeNY Times: Iraqis Torture Captives For The US
From a morally outraged New York Times:
Iraqi soldiers search a house during a joint raid with U.S. soldiers in Baghdad’s northwest Sunni neighborhood of Ghazaliya.
After Iraqi Troops Do Dirty Work, 3 Detainees Talk
By ALISSA J. RUBIN
BAGHDAD, April 21 — Out here in what the soldiers call Baghdad’s wild west, sometimes the choices are all bad.
In one of the new joint American-Iraqi security stations in the capital this month, in the volatile Ghazaliya neighborhood, Capt. Darren Fowler was heaping praise on his Iraqi counterparts for helping capture three insurgent suspects who had provided information he believed would save American lives.
“The detainee gave us names from the highest to the lowest,” Captain Fowler told the Iraqi soldiers. “He showed us their safe houses, where they store weapons and I.E.D.’s and where they keep kidnap victims, how they get weapons, where weapons come from, how they place I.E.D.’s, attack us and go away. Because you detained this guy this is the first intelligence linking everything together. Good job. Very good job.”
The Iraqi officers beamed. What the Americans did not know and what the Iraqis had not told them was that before handing over the detainees to the Americans, the Iraqi soldiers had beaten one of them in front of the other two, the Iraqis said. The stripes on the detainee’s back, which appeared to be the product of a whipping with electrical cables, were later shown briefly to a photographer, who was not allowed to take a picture.
To the Iraqi soldiers, the treatment was normal and necessary. They were proud of their technique and proud to have helped the Americans.
“I prepared him for the Americans and let them take his confession,” Capt. Bassim Hassan said through an interpreter. “We know how to make them talk. We know their back streets. We beat them. I don’t beat them that much, but enough so he feels the pain and it makes him desperate.” …
Beatings like this, which are usually hard to verify but appear to be widespread given the fears about the Iraqi security forces frequently expressed by ordinary Iraqis, present the Americans with a largely undiscussed dilemma.
The beaten detainee, according to Captain Fowler, not only led the Americans to safe houses believed to be used by Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia but also confessed to laying and detonating roadside bombs along a section of road heavily traveled by American patrols. Just a month ago, four soldiers from Captain Fowler’s regiment died on that road after the explosion of a large, deeply buried bomb, possibly made in the bomb factory that the Americans were able to dismantle because of the detainee’s information, Captain Fowler said.
But beating is strictly forbidden by the United States Army’s Field Manual, as well as American and Iraqi laws. When the Americans learned about the beating, they were quick to condemn it.
The use of torture by American soldiers and contractors at Abu Ghraib only compounded Iraqi hatred of Americans and further undermined American moral claims in Iraq. It also produced little valuable information. Most experts, including in the military, say they believe that coerced confessions are an unreliable way to learn about enemy operations because people being tortured will often say whatever they think it will take to stop the pain…
After the prisoner was returned to the Iraqis, Captain Fowler was asked whether the Americans realized that the information was given only after the Iraqis had beaten Mr. Jassam. “They are not supposed to do that,” he said. “What I don’t see, I don’t know, and I can’t stop. The detainees are deathly afraid of being sent to the Iraqi justice system, because this is the kind of thing they do. But this is their culture.”
Later, Captain Fowler said that he thought Mr. Jassam had talked because he hoped to be released. The captain wanted him let go so that he could act as an informant. The Iraqi soldiers vetoed the idea.
Mr. Jassam is now being held in an Iraqi government detention center, widely rumored to be places where suspected insurgents are abused.
Lieutenant Obal, the captain’s deputy, was distraught at the thought that the detainee had been beaten. “I don’t think that’s right,” he said. “We have intelligence teams, they have techniques for getting information, they don’t do things like that. It’s not civilization.”
About 30 yards away, on the other side of the wall, the Iraqi soldiers suggested that the Americans were being naïve. The insurgents are playing for keeps, they say, and force must be answered with force.
“If the Americans used this way, the way we use, nobody would shoot the Americans at all,” Captain Hassan said. “But they are easy with them, and they have made it easy for the terrorists.”
“I didn’t beat them all, I beat Mustafa in front of the others. We tell him we’re going to string him up.” He demonstrated, his arms spread wide. “And, I made the others see him,” he said.
Captain Hassan and his colleagues said they knew the Iraqi Army had rules against beatings, but “they tell us to do what we have to do,” he said.
“For me it’s a matter of conscience, not rules,” he said…
The New York Times has found yet another war to betray our soldiers with this suspiciously sourced attack.
God forbid that our troops get intelligence on the terrorists who are trying to kill them. The Times only understands providing intelligence to our enemies.
Oh, and providing them with propaganda points – like this story.
The use of torture by American soldiers and contractors at Abu Ghraib only compounded Iraqi hatred of Americans and further undermined American moral claims in Iraq.
How can you not hate the New York Times?
The three hours of “horror” at Abu Ghraib had nothing to do with obtaining intelligence. The Times knows this. But they will never let a story (or even a day) pass without finding a way to bring it up.
They hate this country with a passion that far surpasses that of their terrorist colleagues.
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15 Responses to “NY Times: Iraqis Torture Captives For The US”
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April 21st, 2007 at 4:00 pm
“How can you not hate the New York Times?”
Like the Islamo-fascists of Iraq and like the Islamo-peace-fascists of the DNC members in congress they both are beyond mere hate.
April 21st, 2007 at 4:57 pm
The soldiers:
…
The MSM:
The Iraqis:
April 21st, 2007 at 5:28 pm
Their subscription rate has plumetted but they don’t care for they are the dnc operative and just passing along what their ‘bosses’ tell them is the ‘all the news fit to publish’ and other such nonsense. Isn’t that what American media used to rail about with Pravda and other communist media - just spouting the Party Line?!?
April 21st, 2007 at 5:31 pm
When are we going to turn the NYT staff over to the Iraqi’s?
April 21st, 2007 at 6:09 pm
Cancelled my subscription a while back & won’t buy it on principal, even though the Sunday NY Times is one of life’s joys. The people who run it are rotten to the core and don’t deserve my hard earned $. My $30/month was like a donation to Howard Dean, Hildabeast, & the rest of the turd herd. No thanks!
April 21st, 2007 at 8:06 pm
Sometime in the future, someone is going to step up, and show these people what their sedition has bought them. There will be no protection from a religion of hatred, and none from the world they caused to hate us more than Bush ever could. Someone is going to do something about it. I hope it happens in my time too…so I can finally smile about a NYT article.
April 21st, 2007 at 8:18 pm
The NYT would rather a lot of U.S. soldiers die than the Iraqis use whatever means necessary to prevent it. Good. Like we needed more evidence of which side they support. Can’t cancel my subscription, never had one. Given the fanatic support (and out and out lies) the ragheads get from the NYT, msm, and the ‘Rats, it should be obvious we are beating the h— out of them. They can’t let anyone believe that.
April 21st, 2007 at 10:36 pm
Cudos to the Iraqi army. Keep up the good work.
Screw the NY Times.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:17 pm
The NYT isn’t completely useless. Wrap it around a length of 750 MCM electrical cable and you have a club which won’t leave marks! Wouldn’t that be ironic.
April 22nd, 2007 at 2:08 am
TO SEE WHY THE NY TIMES DOES THIS, PLEASE WATCH THIS VIDEO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c
It’s a talk by Evan Sayet and his explanation of Modern Liberals is phenominal. It’s not short, but it’s well worth it, including the Q&A at the end.
April 22nd, 2007 at 8:17 am
Why would the Times complain about how Iraqi’s treat other Iraqi’s now?
They didn’t when Saddam ran things.
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:53 am
doingwhatican, watch the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c and it will explain why in detail.
Basically, the NY Times doesn’t care that they are fighting. The angle is to come up with a way to say that they fight because of us. It’s to make us look bad and the fighting Iraqi’s not look so bad. It also is designed to make any insurgency not look so bad. That video is great and you can start seeing why the Modern Liberals (as Evan Sayet calls them) do what the rest of us would consider goofy things - 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Evan is on the verge of a Unified Theory of Modern Liberals and his work is sort of a Rosetta Stone. I have watched pieces of the video a dozen times - it’s that good.
April 22nd, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Good find al.
Scary part is I think he is on to something.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:28 pm
Could we turn some of these ML’s over to the Iraqi army?
April 24th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
Speaking of the NY Slimes, looks like there is trouble in paradise. 42% of their shareholders withheld their votes for the board of directors and claimed no confidence in them. From Bloomberg;
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/.....refer=news
Naturally, Pinch Sulzberger is in denial, the normal SOP for uber-liberals at the beck and call of the DNC and their fuhrer, George Soros.
Note to shareholders, better to sell this POS stock before it falls further into the abyss.