SubscribeNYT: Iraq War Turns Troops Into Murderers
From those supporters of the troops at the New York Times:
[AFP caption:] Greeters watch as a plane full of US Army soldiers taxis to the gate on their way through the Bangor International Airport, Maine, in 2006. A study conducted by The New York Times has found 121 murder cases in the United States, which involve veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars following their return from the front.
Across America, Deadly Echoes of Foreign Battles
January 13, 2008
By DEBORAH SONTAG and LIZETTE ALVAREZ
… The New York Times found 121 cases in which veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan committed a killing in this country, or were charged with one, after their return from war. In many of those cases, combat trauma and the stress of deployment — along with alcohol abuse, family discord and other attendant problems — appear to have set the stage for a tragedy that was part destruction, part self-destruction.
Three-quarters of these veterans were still in the military at the time of the killing. More than half the killings involved guns, and the rest were stabbings, beatings, strangulations and bathtub drownings. Twenty-five offenders faced murder, manslaughter or homicide charges for fatal car crashes resulting from drunken, reckless or suicidal driving.
About a third of the victims were spouses, girlfriends, children or other relatives, among them 2-year-old Krisiauna Calaira Lewis, whose 20-year-old father slammed her against a wall when he was recuperating in Texas from a bombing near Falluja that blew off his foot and shook up his brain.
A quarter of the victims were fellow service members, including Specialist Richard Davis of the Army, who was stabbed repeatedly and then set ablaze, his body hidden in the woods by fellow soldiers a day after they all returned from Iraq.
And the rest were acquaintances or strangers, among them Noah P. Gamez, 21, who was breaking into a car at a Tucson motel when an Iraq combat veteran, also 21, caught him, shot him dead and then killed himself outside San Diego with one of several guns found in his car.
The Pentagon does not keep track of such killings, most of which are prosecuted not by the military justice system but by civilian courts in state after state. Neither does the Justice Department.
To compile and analyze its list, The Times conducted a search of local news reports, examined police, court and military records and interviewed the defendants, their lawyers and families, the victims’ families and military and law enforcement officials.
This reporting most likely uncovered only the minimum number of such cases, given that not all killings, especially in big cities and on military bases, are reported publicly or in detail. Also, it was often not possible to determine the deployment history of other service members arrested on homicide charges.
The Times used the same methods to research homicides involving all active-duty military personnel and new veterans for the six years before and after the present wartime period began with the invasion of Afghanistan in 2001.
This showed an 89 percent increase during the present wartime period, to 349 cases from 184, about three-quarters of which involved Iraq and Afghanistan war veterans. The increase occurred even though there have been fewer troops stationed in the United States in the last six years and the American homicide rate has been, on average, lower…
“When they’ve been in combat, you have to suspect immediately that combat has had some effect, especially with people who haven’t shown these tendencies in the past,” said Robert Jay Lifton, a lecturer in psychiatry at Harvard Medical School/Cambridge Health Alliance who used to run “rap groups” for Vietnam veterans and fought to earn recognition for what became known as post-traumatic stress disorder, or PTSD.
“Everything is multicausational, of course,” Dr. Lifton continued. “But combat, especially in a counterinsurgency war, is such a powerful experience that to discount it would be artificial.” …
First of all one suspects this study by the New York Times has about as much accuracy as the Lancet “body count” study that George Soros funded. And for the same reasons.
But also one has to wonder why The Times would do such a study? Why now?
We all know why. The Timesmen loathe and despise the US military. And since things are going so well with the surge in Iraq that they can’t complain about the war, they have to try another tack.
So why not do a “study” to show how fighting such a unjust and immoral war has turned American troops into murderers at home?
After all, who is going to question their research? They are the New York Times?
And in typical NYT fashion, this typically verbose and meandering article manages to work in all of the Democrat talking points, even the desperate need for free universal health insurance:
That happened in the case of Stephen Sherwood, who enlisted in the Army at 34 to obtain medical insurance when his wife got pregnant. He may never have been screened for combat trauma.
Needless to say The Times has its usual “experts’ at the ready, like Dr. Robert Jay Lifton — who oddly enough writes anti-US books and even little screeds for the America-hating Nation magazine:
Conditions of Atrocity
Robert Jay Lifton
May 31, 2004 issue
… Both Abu Ghraib and My Lai are examples of what I call an “atrocity-producing situation”–one so structured, psychologically and militarily, that ordinary people, men or women no better or worse than you or I, can regularly commit atrocities…
What ultimately drives the dynamic is an ideological vision that equates Iraqi fighters with “terrorists” and seeks to further justify the invasion. All this is part of the amorphous, even apocalyptic, “war on terrorism,” as is the practice of denying the human rights of detainees labeled as terrorists, a further stimulus for abuse. Grotesque improvisations can occur at different levels–whether in the form of interrogators’ ideas about inflicting sexual humiliation or in foot soldiers’ methods of carrying out those instructions or responding to more indirect messages from above…
Psychologically and ethically, responsibility for the crimes at Abu Ghraib extends to the Defense Secretary, the Attorney General and the White House. Those crimes are a direct expression of the kind of war we are waging in Iraq.
(Robert Jay Lifton is the author of Superpower Syndrome: America’s Apocalyptic Confrontation With the World and Home From the War: Learning From Vietnam Veterans, recently reissued in paperback with a new preface on Iraq. He is also an editor of Crimes of War: Iraq, forthcoming from Nation Books.)
Surely Dr. Lifton was the true author behind this New York Times “study.”
Just as surely as Dr. Lifton is a Soros Fellow. — Or wants to be.
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21 Responses to “NYT: Iraq War Turns Troops Into Murderers”
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January 13th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Ok - here are the numbers - 2mil wear the uniform in the US Armed Forces - generously (given injury,disease, job etc) about 1mil of those have served overseas in the Combat Zones - sooooooooo that (121) is approximatly 0.00012% of the US Armed Forces. A statistic zero.
There are lies, damn lies and statistics.
Let us pick any other ’social’ group and take a quick look at their ’stats’
Damn - when is some Group going to stand up and condem this continual assualt on the integrity of the Armed Forces?
Any grouping can show stats that make these piddling numbers almost laughable - and a disgrace that any ‘newpaper’ would waste time on ‘reporting’ it - of course the NYTs has shown that the military is not a group that they admire or support -
Must be because the Armed Forces actually work for a (barely life sustaning) living and are willing to defend America.
January 13th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Real military men scare the bejeebus out of the NYT Nancy Boys.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
wm4……your statements on the NYT article are spot on. However, your statement about military personnel making a barely life sustaining living is not. Not even close unless you think brand new E-1’s should make enough to buy a house.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
And when will the NYT be doing a study on the number of people who have never served in uniform but who go out and rape, torture and murder just for the fun of it ? You can bet there’ll be one hell of a lot more than 121 of them -and you can also bet that the Times would desperately make excuses for every single one of them.
Like those 5 assholes who raped and then butchered that young couple in Knoxville last year -oh wait- the Times never even bothered to report that horrific crime much less do a study.
That mental picture of NYT reporters being dragged screaming from the building and strung up like Kwanzaa decorations, somehow just got a little less ugly.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
It will never happen DW because it would be too easy to discredit their own report. So let’s have a study on MR13 gang members in southern California. I wonder how many that would produce by percentage? The NYT report is just stupid BS. They should be taken to the woodshed for it, but they will never present it in light of other “control” groups because the BS would be running down their leg.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
There have been about 1.4 million troops total sent to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan compared to 300 million citizens of the United States. That is 0.46% of the population who have fought in the War on Terror since it began.
There have also been 98,716 murders in the US since 2001, if 121 had a soldier as a suspect (who knows how many were convicted) then that means it is only 0.12% of murders. Looks like serving actually decreases your chances of becoming a murderer to me.
What kind journalism is it to pick and choose what stats suit your purpose?
January 13th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
not to be picky, because bushel has a great point! But….it wouldnt be 46% of the population, it would be .0046% of the population. Decimal points are a bear when not in the correct spot. That puts the other statistic at .0012% of soldier suspects too.
Not counting the deaths from unintended causes, like vehicle accidents, and accidental deaths….yes, serving gives you a better opportunity to avoid catastrophe…..because at least you have a good idea who the enemy is, and you can fight back.
Not the case in the States, where the enemy of your country is usually elected, or tenured, or high. And you cant fight back with deadly force either. At least not legally.
I in no way mean to impugn the statistical wizardry of notunderabushel either…..I just had to show how miniscule the actual number is….compared to the MSN’s attempt to make it seem like something it is not. Kind of like Congress…
January 13th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
From this Report
We get the following background on the man who runs the NYTs today.
“During this era Punch Sulzberger asked his activist son an odd question, wrote Wall Street Journal ethics columnist Harry Stein in 2000: If an American soldier runs into a North Vietnamese soldier, which would you like to see get shot?
“I would want to see the American get shot,” replied the young man who today controls The New York Times. “It’s the other guy’s country.” We now know, of course, that most of those fighting against Americans in then-South Vietnam were soldiers invading from another country, Communist North Vietnam. ”
Anyone who thinks the NYTs is going to do anything but attack the American Military is naive at the very least.
Here’s a site that looks at deaths by Cause
“Killed by Airline Crashes
While there are risks in using all forms of transportation, commercial airline travel is one of the safest. From January 1982 to March 2001, a period of 19.25 years, there were a total of 8,109,000,000 passenger enplanements. During that same time period, there were 2,301 fatalities (120 people killed on average each year), and 348 serious injuries. This amounts to a 0.00003% chance of being seriously injured or killed in a commercial aviation accident. This is far less than any other mode of transportation. [Source: NTSB, Passenger Fatalities, 1982 through March 2001.] more… ”
120 people per year killed by aircraft-Your chances of being killed by an aircraft in the US are far more than by a returning Afghanistan/Iraq vet.
“Killed by Lightning
Lightning-related fatality, injury, and damage reports in the US were summarized for 36 years since 1959, based on the NOAA publication Storm Data. There were 3239 deaths, 9818 injuries, and 19,814 property-damage reports from lightning during this period. On average, 90 people are killed every year in the U.S. by lightning. [NOAA Technical Memorandum NWS SR-193] more… ”
An American is more likely to be killed by lighting than by a Afghanistan/Iraq vet.
In Fact, an American is more likely to be killed by almost any other cause than by a Afghanistan/Iraq vet.
January 13th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Good analysis and number crunching here:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/a.....019533.php
January 13th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
I HOPE our troops are MURDERING the enemy! Isn’t that their JOB?!? Isn’t that why they are receiving that fabulous salary and benefits and months and years of training?!? Since when is that considered news?!?!
January 13th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
“I HOPE our troops are MURDERING the enemy!”
Surely you can’t mean that. Murdering? Unlawful killing?
I would hope our troops are winning, killing that which needs killing in a lawful way (lawful as in the rules of war or ROE). And Murdering the enemy is NOT thier job or what they are being paid and trained for. If you knew anything about how our troops are trained, which you apparently don’t, you would know that. BS statements like that are what I’d expect to see at KOS or HUFFPO.
January 14th, 2008 at 2:08 am
Hmmm…… how do you kill in a lawful way, by asking next of kin first or if they would like to be shot or flamed or bombed? I’m sorry I guess I never figured war as a parlor game with rules and regulations like the terrorist attacks on 9/11. NOW those guys knew how to MURDER people. Let’s all remember soldiers go out and play nice and make people like WI happy!
January 14th, 2008 at 8:03 am
L-PIAPS….since you obviously don’t have a clue as to the difference between murder and lawful (or justified if you will) killing in war, I’m not going to spend a lot of time trying to explain it to you. If you don’t know the difference between an aircraft commander dropping bombs on a “targeted” area and indiscriminately dropping his ordnance on anything he sees moving, I’m not going to spend a lot of time explaining it to you. If you don’t know the difference between killing in a firefight on the ground and indiscriminately shooting kids in a schoolyard, I’m not going to explain it to you. If you haven’t “been there” and “done that”, then stick with PIAPS.
January 14th, 2008 at 10:37 am
You know I find it sad that a stupid NYTs article can turn us on each other - which is exactly what their purpose is (but mostly to turn the stupid masses on the Troops). It is badly written, badly (not at all) researched and bogus - as pointed out by a number of people here.
No L-PIAPS - soldiers in a Combat Zone do not Murder - or if they do they are tried in court over it. There is a difference. It has been the source of debate and rankle forever as to what is Murder, Killing and ‘justifiable’. We still are dealing with that today.
I do believe that 99.9% of US Armed Forces are trained well enough and disciplined well enough to actually preform under the current ROE. The problems come in when someone alters that because of their own criminality, alcohol/drug use or if you will PTSD. Those are issues that need to be addressed - off the field of battle.
To say that some come home changed and perhaps a danger to themselves or others -should be a given. But that does not mean that every Veteran from every War is a psychological time bomb ready to explode and kill wantonly. I do believe that is another fiberal manisfestion from the Vietnam era which they want so hard to project onto the Iraq War.
That is the implication from the fiberals out there and it is demeaning, insulting and disgusts me to no end.
And WI - I’m sorry I come from a long line of military and have been both sides of the Army wife coin - I know from 29 years experience - it is not a life to make money in. And yes, many times through the years, it was barely life sustaining. And I have many friends retired to trailers and apartments - because they don’t have enough to get by - in education or opportunities. That is why my hubby jumped at the chance to go to college - to improve our future chances.
But it was a life I enjoyed and wish I could have served myself - and have passed onto another generation.
January 14th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
“You know I find it sad that a stupid NYTs article can turn us on each other ”
Don’t blame the NYT, as bad as they are, for a completely idiotic statement about combat killings being murder, and encouraging it by someone talking out their arse who, I’m just guessing, has never been in combat, much less in the military. BS needs to be called BS when detected.
Military Pay: I wasn’t referring to the past. My statement was present tense. According to the current pay scales with subsistence allowance and basic allowance for quarters (not including VHA or any special pays, bonuses, combat pay or combat zone tax exclusions) an E-4 over 4 earns $42,444 per year. I know a lot of college grads that would be thrilled to be making that. Is it going to make you rich? Of course not. But that is not barely life sustaining, even in San Diego where I took the BAQ from for someone at the lower end of the pay scale. In times past, the pay was horrible. When I enlisted in 1963 my pay was $79/month. When I retired 27 years later as an E-9 over 26, it was less than the E-4 makes today. As for people retiring in the last several years having to live in trailer parks or not having opportunity, most of that, if not all, is self inflicted due to poor monetary habits, poor work habits or not doing what they needed to do to be successful after a career in the military. Choices count. Don’t blame retiree money problems on the NYT.
January 14th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Hmmm…… how do you kill in a lawful way,
Well right off the bat, if the other SOB is shooting at my ass and trying to kill me I will sure as hell try to kill him first and to hell with the law.
Any more dumbass questions?
January 15th, 2008 at 12:41 am
As the murder rate for this demographic, young military men who’ve served, is 1/6th that of the general population, clearly the NYTimes is advocating both universal service and universal deployment to Iraq for all young men to reduce violent crime.
Also, based upon this exhaustive NYTimes study of their own bias, in which they have demonstrated that stories exaggerating the violent tendencies of American Servicement are increasing in number, the NYTimes has proven… their own bias.
January 15th, 2008 at 1:41 am
Well I HOPE our guys are MURDERING the Muslim bastards. I dont want any innocent bystanders hurt but if it’s between our boys and them……………… too damn bad! Can someone also please explain to me how Muslim suicide bombers who blow up themselves and anyone else in sight are escaping this same “scrutiny”? This is all bullshit about our guys anyway. It’s just the liberal plot to criminalize OUR men while holding up to exhaulted status the high and mighty REAL MURDERERS the muslims. And looks like a lot of people here in the US is buying that bullshit!!! The REAL WAR is here at home, Afghanistan and Iraq are only small battlefronts anyway!
January 15th, 2008 at 7:01 am
“The REAL WAR is here at home”…you nailed it, Lipstick.
January 15th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
“The REAL WAR is here at home, …..!”
I agree Lipstick on a PIAPS. As explained in a book that Michael Savage wrote, with the “Enemy Within”. The MSM is their mouthpiece. (And sometimes the Conservative Media and Politicians have fallen for their propaganda as well.) Just saying………………..
The NYT has lost all sense of decency, not to mention credibility.
January 16th, 2008 at 6:48 am
“The REAL WAR is here at home…” Here’s a passage from Michael Gove’s excellent book “Celsius 7/7″:
“The war in which they (the Islamists) enlisted is the conflict of our times, a struggle between liberal values and resurgent totalitarianism. But it is a war in which many, literally, do not believe. The West face a challenge to its values, culture and freedoms as profound, in its way, as the threat posed by fascism and communism. But the response to that challenge from many in the West as all too often confused, temporizing, weak and compromised. The precise nature of the threat - Islamism - is barely appreciated by many. Those most engaged in combating the threat - specifically the governments of America, Britain and Australia - have to struggle against intellectual currents that make the vital work of self-defence increasingly difficult”.
Even if we win on the battlefield it will make no difference if we lose the intellectual battle, that’s our problem, because that battle of ideas is hardly being fought…