« | »

Obama Gets Resumes Of 45 Top Muslims

From Denver Post:

Obama gets list of top Muslim Americans

03/27/2009

CHICAGO — In a bid to get more Muslim Americans working in the Obama administration, a book with resumes of 45 of the nation’s most qualified — Ivy League grads, Fortune 500 executives and public servants, all carefully vetted — has been submitted to the White House.

The effort, driven by community leaders and others, including U.S. Rep. Keith Ellison, D-Minn., was bumped up two weeks because White House officials heard about the venture, said J. Saleh Williams, program coordinator for the Congressional Muslim Staffers Association, who sifted through more than 300 names.

"It was mostly under the radar," Williams said. "We thought it would put (the president) in a precarious position. We didn’t know how closely he wanted to appear to be working with the Muslim American community."

So much for separation of church and state.

[A]ll carefully vetted…

Ah, yes.

The famous Obama team vetting.

But where is the ALCU?

(Just kidding.)

This article was posted by Steve on Saturday, March 28th, 2009. Comments are currently closed.

85 Responses to “Obama Gets Resumes Of 45 Top Muslims”

  1. proreason says:

    Please Moron, PLUUEEEEZZZZZZ appoint some Muslims to high-level positions.

    No amount of msm duplicity will be able to hide the truth when they are really vetted on the internet.

  2. VMAN says:

    Congressional Muslim Staffers Association, National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, The Black Panthers. The Black Congressional Caucus, CAIR and on and on but don’t you DARE be a white Christian. The left is using divide and conquer for all it’s worth.

  3. Professor_Repulso says:

    It would seem discriminatory unless similar lists of Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, animists, wiccans, etc. were also thrown into the mix.

  4. U NO HOO says:

    Substitute Romney for Obama and Mormon for Muslim.

    And Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, for Keith Ellison, D-Minn, the news wheel would be burning out its bearings.

  5. DGA says:

    Oh yeah, bring it on. Get a few of these terrorist wannabes in office, then the little details will come out, quite a sport I think. Besides, how much worse could they be than the current crop of control freaks and marxists in there now?

  6. canary says:

    Terror inmates may be released in US: intel chief
    Thursday, March 26, 2009 10:55:48 PM · by Yehuda · 72 replies · 1,766+ views
    Britbart / AFP ^ | 03/26/09 | un-named
    President Barack Obama’s intelligence chief confirmed Thursday that some Guantanamo inmates may be released on US soil and receive assistance to return to society. “If we are to release them in the United States, we need some sort of assistance for them to start a new life,” said National Intelligence Director Dennis Blair at his first press conference. “You can’t just put them on the street,” he added. “All that is work in progress.” Obama has vowed to close the controversial prison camp by next January and has ordered individual reviews for cases against each of the over 240 remaining…

    • BigOil says:

      “You can’t just put them on the street,”

      I think we can kill two birds with one stone. Why not just hire the released Gitmo detainees into the administration? After all, they have been properly vetted – and are harmless enough to live amongst us.

      We can turn the White House into a half-way house for recovering Jihadis. Show the Muslim world how much we capitulate care…

    • Rusty Shackleford says:

      Only if they promise to bathe once in awhile.

  7. pinandpuller says:

    Who’s Who in American Jihad.

  8. jrmcdonald says:

    That ‘Moderate’ muslim who cut off his Wife’s head is available.

  9. Professor_Repulso says:

    Like Diogenes, still searching for the MMM – the Mythical Moderate Muslim.

  10. JohnMG says:

    …..“If we are to release them in the United States, we need some sort of assistance for them to start a new life,” said National Intelligence Director Dennis Blair…..

    I think if we release them into the U S population they should first have a distinctive target tattooed on their forhead. Then, turn ’em all loose.

  11. JohnMG says:

    Forehead. My head was working faster than my fingers. Sorry. ;-}

    • Steve says:

      Has the editing function stopped working?

      I am regularly seeing people post corrections immediately after their posts, when they can edit them.

    • JohnMG says:

      Maybe so. I don’t see the little blue “e” anymore.

    • pdsand says:

      Yes, I no longer have a “click to edit” option.

    • Colonel1961 says:

      Me, too.

    • wardmama4 says:

      Yes I do not have the e option any more. I thought it was just my computer – and as you can see, just blithly ignored any and all of my mistakes.

      I asked my hubby to do a computer checkup – he chose to nap instead. My computer is no longer holding any of my sign-ins. I do not like it at all, it requires me to think.

    • Steve says:

      “Maybe so. I don’t see the little blue “e” anymore.”

      I think (hope) I’ve got it working again.

  12. pagar says:

    Are you saying he’s out of jail already?
    That ‘Moderate’ muslim who cut off his Wife’s head is available.

    • canary says:

      Pager/no. The head chopper who founded Bridges TV still insists he’s innocnent. However authorities say that the way parts of her body were muslim ritually placed. Along with the restraining order and pending divorce, his murdered wife’s sister says that she was terrified and abused by him for 8 years. There is arguing between NOW and normal women, because NOW is saying that it was a culture killing, instead of spousal abuse. What the significance in their arguing over this, unless the normal women think he will get off with leaner sentence. I’d call it both.

  13. beautyofreason says:

    How is this behavior not considered discriminatory?

    I’m going to hope that a reasonable assessment will be done beforehand to show that none of these candidates have ties to CAIR or the Muslim Brotherhood (both linked to terrorism and supporters).

    I’m joking of course. Obama will do no such search. Waiting for the saucy details to leak outside the mainstream media….

    • canary says:

      I think it’s a good idea to mark all illegals until they obtain official citizens of the U.S. Course the civil liberties union, who only defend criminals would protest.
      But, soon oOllabaho will have Americans with rice size mircro-chips in our foreheads to see how much money we have.

  14. canary says:

    PLEASE! e-mail this Senator trying to stop Gitmo prisoners from coming here. He has been on the news, and recently went to Gitmo and did a youtube, and has been trying to get ooObambo to go there. He has been in the Senate Armed Services Committee for years, and extremely conservative Republican. He wants people to contact from everywhere.

    http://inhofe.senate.gov/public/

    • canary says:

      It would be so awesome for ooOlabma to visit Gitmo and shake hands with one of the prisoners. Better yet, sit in a jail cell with one of them and visit. Better yet, Biden, Hillariho, Pelosiho. Put some muscle behind their Yes We Can.

    • catie says:

      Canary, I sent an email. I agree he should go and shake their hands. Perhaps he can put these “fine folks” up at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave with the Belle & two punishments.

  15. MinnesotaRush says:

    “It was mostly under the radar,” Williams said. “We thought it would put (the president) in a precarious position. We didn’t know how closely he wanted to appear to be working with the Muslim American community.”

    Well .. didn’t o-blah-blah say in one of his books that if the political winds changed he would stand with his muslim brothers??? Guess he’s just kinda gathering some up.

    Besides .. they probably don’t have any tax issues (‘cuz they’re likely exempt).

  16. canary says:

    AH!! S.O.S. on the chalkboard behind them stands for Supporters Of Shariah and besure to click on their “who is Sheikh Abu-Hamza that built Jihad. Their main office is UK.
    Click on their site and you will understand exactly what the meaning of this comment.
    “It was mostly under the radar,” Williams said. “We thought it would put (the president) in a precarious position. We didn’t know how closely he wanted to appear to be working with the Muslim American community.”

    http://www.angelfire.com/bc3/johnsonuk/eng/sos.html

    an excerpt from their beliefs
    2/190. Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
    [2/191. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppressionare worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slaythem. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
    [2/192. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
    [2/193. And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah

    Supporters of Shariah [SOS]
    All praise is due to Allah (Glorified and exalted be He)
    and peace and blessings be upon Muhammad,
    The final Messenger of Allah

    Our Aim

    Muslims and non-Muslims are being oppressed throughout the world. SOS is one of the organizations struggling to remove the oppression created by man- made laws. So that the whole of mankind can enjoy the freedom, purity and justice of living under Allah’s laws-The Shari’ah.

    Background to the Formation of S.o.S.

    Before S.o.S. was chosen as a title in 1994, the members were working under many other names in various parts of the world. Therefore, SOS has the benefit of first hand experience in a wide variety of oppressive situations.

    • beautyofreason says:

      “SOS is one of the organizations struggling to remove the oppression created by man- made laws. So that the whole of mankind can enjoy the freedom, purity and justice”

      I think I’m going to hurl.

      The “freedom” of having one’s head sliced off for leaving Islam. The “freedom” of paying extra taxes and not building churches for being a Christian.

      The “purity” of a girl or teen married off to a man who has other wives and who makes decisions on what his property can wear in public, how it travels, how it can leave him, etc.

      The “justice” of banning music, movies, books, dogs, hand holding, and other forms of “oppression from man-made laws.”

      Gosh, how these Islamic groups twist their words to justify the worst of human atrocities and totalitarianism! It makes me sick…..

  17. canary says:

    White House SOS’s Supporters of Shariah (SOS) hero’s and leaders
    Sheikh Hassan Banna who hates Isreal
    http://taghrib.ir/english/?pgid=43&scid=39&dcid=40179
    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1wbq2_sheikh-hassan-albanna-01_politics vidio of him

    Sheikh Ahmed Shaakir (his book and many more honoring Obama Bin Laden)
    http://www.maktabah.net/store/Products/ViewProductDetails.aspx?CategoryID=2&ProductID=28076&ID=0

    Sheikh Syed Qutb (notice the two fists, and he was Obama Bin Laden’s mentor)
    http://www.revolutionmuslim.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=869

    Sheikh Abdullah Azzam mentor of Obama Bin Laden, hated jews, liked explosives
    http://caravansofmartyrs.atspace.com/html/Abdullah_Azzam.htm

    Sheikh Mohd. Ibn Ibraheem (I don’t understand fajjduei language so not sure)
    “And many others who fought to defend the Shari’ah”

    Well, I guess their Allah has them where he wants them. I can’t make out anything else on the chalk board. A 12/ date?

  18. wardmama4 says:

    I can not put into words how completely enraged this makes me – and to have this portrayed as The One ™ being inclusive.

    I think I’m going to puke.

    When are the American people going to rise up and say not NO but HELL NO?

    I hope it is before it’s too late.

    • beautyofreason says:

      I’m with you.

      We’re only a few months into his Presidency, yet he has compromised the security of our country. Already we’ve seen the political correctness, the expansion of spending, the closing of Guantanamo, and the weakness of exchanges with Iran, China, and Russia. Iran will get their nukes, Russia will get their way on the U.S. missile defense system, and other countries will take our payouts.

      When Obama was first elected I was optimistic but skeptical. I must have been comforted by all of those peachy pronouncements about “hope” over the economic situation. Now my feelings about his presidency range from anger to disbelief. His weakness on terrorism is the worst aspect for me. His statements are dishonest and reek of political correctness. I read last week that the Pentagon will refer to War on Terror as the “overseas contingency operation.” This administration exchanges meaningful words for vague phrases or emotional platitudes. Every politician minces words to some extent, but this administration does so to the extreme. I should have realized that newspeak has always been at the heart of Obama’s campaign, whether in his criticism of of the economy (“hope” = redistribution of wealth) or his associations with leftist radicals such as Jeremiah Wright.

      Our country has placed the moral equivalent of Wright into office, someone with a paradoxical disdain for the USA and a level of cultural relativism that puts our Western freedoms on equal footing with theocratic regimes. Though Obama took an oath to value our Constitution and equal opportunity, he is trashing both by selecting from a list of exclusively Muslim candidates. If a Christian politician followed suit, the government would scream bloody murder. Worst yet, I doubt that Obama’s benefactors will question whether or not these candidates support Shariah law over the Constitution or have ties to the Muslim Brotherhood. Because those would be the real questions to ask, the uncomfortable ones and they are not acceptable in Newspeak, first edition.

    • jobeth says:

      Please disregard – Message to Derius, deleted and posted in correct place below

  19. decius says:

    Hrm… I can think of several legitimate reasons why an understanding of the Muslim faith would be a requirement for an advisory position. After all, the public belief is that everyone who believes in Mohammad is a terrorist anti-American anti-woman anti-freedom sociopath.

    I would actually prefer an American Muslim to an American Christian.
    One of the very vocal opponents of Free Speech in America, Jack Thompson, is a Christian. Many other Christians support him morally and financially.

    Most serial killers in America are devout Christians. Some examples:
    David Berkowitz, called the SON OF SAM;
    The Yorkshire Rapier;
    Sampson Kanderayi, called The Ax Killer;
    Watts, The Sunday Morning Slasher;
    Jeffery Dahmer

    All were very devout Christians.

    I won’t go into Godwin’s rule territory, even though I could, but I am going to mention that Stalin went to college to become a Protestant minister.

    I could care less what the President’s advisers’ personal opinions’ religious bases are:
    Firstly, I fully expect that they will perform their duties faithfully (If I didn’t, I still wouldn’t care, I would want them out anyway.) Unless you think Muslims are somehow less reliable then known serial killers and dictators, you must agree.

    Second, the Presidential advisers have no authority on their own; all of their power is directly appointed by the President with the consent of the Senate. That means that their actions ARE the President’s actions by proxy.

    Thirdly, the powers of the President are sharply limited by the Constitution. (Hamiltonians, Adamites, Lincolnites, and Bushites will disagree, but the Supreme Court has not made a recent ruling on the scope of the “executive power” clause). The President cannot declare war (Reserved for Congress), cannot singlehandedly sign treaties (A power shared by the Senate), only has power over a bill that has between 1/2 and 2/3 support in the congress, and does not have the power to spend money not authorized by Congress. In other words, if we had a Congress worth the oxygen they consume, GWB would have hung for treason. (Or rather, been removed from office prior to deliberately providing recruits to anti-American groups.)

    My real fear is that Obama will have only one Muslim adviser, and assume that that one person represents the beliefs of a significant number of American Muslims, or worse, Muslims worldwide.

    Who was it that cast the first stone here? I realize that stoning an adulteress is a Jewish law, not a Christian one, but how long since you have applied 1 Corinthians 13? Or is charity/love reserved for whites of the appropriate faith? Need I point out Luke 10:25-37?

    I’m sorry that I had to quote chapter and verse in context, but I lack the skill to take out of context quotes to support my opinion. Maybe someone else who has that skill could use it to demonstrate a counterexample.

    • proreason says:

      Well then, you have exactly what you have been having wet dreams about for your entire life, don’t you.

      Enjoy it while it lasts, because one of two things is going to happen……the radicals will be defeated by rational Americans or we will all be adherants to the Sharia law you seem to be looking forward to. For your sake, I hope you aren’t queer, a woman, handicapped, a dissenter, a cartoonist, a writer, a “journalist”, someone who likes the comforts of modern life, someone who uses technology, etc. etc. etc…………that is, assuming you find your hands and your neck useful

    • mybrotherkeeper says:

      Decius: Son of Sam was not converted to Christ till after he was imprisoned. Ditto for Jeffrey Dahlmer. Ditto for Ted Bundy. None of these guys even claimed to be believers in Christ whilst on their murder sprees. As for Joseph Stalin, he started out in a Christian-type religious vein, but by the time he became a murderous thug he was an avowed communist.
      As for Jack Thompson–never heard of him.
      As for the other guys, I do not know anything of them, either.
      You’ve ‘proved’ nothing.

    • wardmama4 says:

      John Thompson, who goes by the name Jack, is a lawyer in addition to being a Christian – and he is against violence, pornography and obscene music lyrics – which isn’t a stretch for most Southern ministers worth their salt. It a big difference than ‘very vocal opponent of Free Speech’. While I do not support censorship – I (as a Christian and a parent) don’t have a problem with ratings system to keep adult themes out of the hands of children. Big, huge difference.

      If you got the 3 (Yorkshire Raper, Watts and Kanderayl) from the same website I did – what a newspaper ‘reported’ is not at all (most particularly when someone is attempting to act nuts before going to trial) the same as empirical proof. Try looking at their biographies – not a mention at all of Watts religion for example.

      And the rest is as pointed out – ‘being raised’ in a religion does not make one a Christian. Professing does not mean one is a Christian.

      And exactly why did you bring this up in this discussion – you’d rather American muslim to an American Christian? Why? You then go on to mention 6 people out of the millions of American Christians as examples of why you have a problem with American Christians?

      Want me to pick 6 American muslims as shining examples of that religion?
      Think about it.

    • decius says:

      mybrotherkeeper, is your assertion is that being a mass murder is likely to make one a Christian? After all, a disproportionate number do.

      I only pointed out the correlation that serial killers are more likely to be Christian than they are to be Muslim. If you wish to challenge that assertion, go ahead and do so. Find a comprehensive list of murderers, and determine their religion or professed religion.

      If you want to, include wars: Identify who started each war in the last 2000 years, or just the last 1500 if you want to exclude the period prior to Islam, and their religion or professed religion. Include the Crusades in your list of wars, and justify your reasons for choosing the initiator of the war. I specifically do not make any claims regarding this aspect, as I have not done the significant research required.

      It is probably better for your credibility to claim never to have heard of the nationally publicized radical Christian lawyer who chose, at his disbarment hearing, to challenge the legitimacy of the judge who disbarred him. After all, he was most heavily publicized in channels that support American freedoms.

      Jack Thompson lobbied Congress, sued retailers, and threatened publishers in order to keep material that he unilaterally deemed harmful to minors from being sold to adults.

      As to your assertion of what I have ‘proved’ [sic], your counter-assertions are weak, poorly referenced, do not respond to the key portions of my thesis, and your conclusion asserts that I did not do something that I did not claim to do. I never claimed that I had ‘proved’ anything. I have my opinion, formed from facts and my moral beliefs, and you have your opinion. If you wish to share the bases of your belief with me, I will consider them and discuss them frankly. If you wish to consider and discuss the reasons behind my belief, I am willing to do so.

      Frankly, I do wish to convince all of you that religious tolerance is safe, while religious intolerance is dangerous. Part of that requires that I disrupt any thought that “If nobody was allowed to be anything but a Christian the world would be safe.” If you believe that statement, verbatim, with everything that it implies, is true, I ask that you explain why.

      For the record, I am equally opposed to Radical Muslims, Radical Jews, Radical Christians, Radical Communists, Radical Atheists, Radical Amish, Radical Democrats, Radical Republicans, Radical Anarchists, Radical Capitalists, and any other Radical groups or potential Radical groups I may have missed.

      Now that we have agreed that anyone who acts in a manner that is entirely different than the teachings of their professed religion isn’t actually a follower of the religion he professes, I assert that murderers who profess to be Muslims are in the same category as murderers who profess to be Christians: Hypocrites who should not be used to judge others who profess the same religion.

      In my personal experience, the most intolerant, bigoted, and in many cases violently reactionary people I have met have claimed to be Christians. I have seen examples of “Christian” groups using propaganda techniques for the purpose of persecuting minority groups. I have not seen “Muslim” groups doing the same thing. I do acknowledge that there are millions of groups of Christians who have not done any of the things that I have seen “Christians” doing. There are a similar number of Muslims who disavow the “Muslim” extremists.

      I don’t really want to get into “Legally enforced rating system for distribution of media” vs. “Censorship”. If you really want to, then start by defining the two in such a manner as any reasonable person can tell which one any given example is.

    • jobeth says:

      Dufus lefties like you like to barrage uneducated people with a lot of meaningless non-facts and theories and minutia to confuse their weak minds.

      Doesn’t work on THINKING responsible conservatives who can easily see through all the nonsense and who are up with details of REALITY.

      Using the comparisons you used shows you as brainless as the idiots you try to imulate.

      How’s that working for you? You need to stay with those who are impressed with your tired emptyheaded nonsense. Geeze!

      Oh, by the way, Pinheaded self professed “intellectuals” like you are only good for one thing. Comic Relief!

      “Professing themselves wise to be they become fools” In case you don’t reconize this…Its from the Bible…Romans 1:22 Fits YOU to a T

    • decius says:

      Sure, I’ll bite:

      >Dufus lefties like you like to barrage uneducated people with a lot of meaningless non-facts and theories and minutia to confuse their weak minds.

      Actually, I was trying to target fairly well-educated but misguided people. Why do you think that I was targeting uneducated people?

      >Doesn’t work on THINKING responsible conservatives who can easily see through all the nonsense and who are up with details of REALITY.

      Ok. I will restate my basic points, and show the techniques I used. If you can, you may show me the details of reality.

      >Using the comparisons you used shows you as brainless as the idiots you try to imulate. [SIC]

      I think and act for myself. Would you would prefer I tried to emulate the same idiots that you do?

      >How’s that working for you? You need to stay with those who are impressed with your tired emptyheaded nonsense. Geeze!

      So far, I don’t think I’ve actually reached anyone who forms their own opinion. Everything I’ve read here has been a knee-jerk reaction that I think is a third-party opinion not subject to consideration.

      As promised, the points I have made, and the manner in which they have been made:

      Top level post:
      There may be a valid reason (other than PR) that knowing Islam as well as a Muslim would is a requirement for a Presidential position.
      I asserted this, gave an example of such a position, and nobody has yet asserted otherwise. Therefore I conclude that my primary point is accepted.
      Therefore: (not yet stated) Collecting resumes from the best-qualified Muslims is to be expected. The original story lacks notable content.

      I stated a preference. This is my personal opinion and I have discussed the reasons for it, but as an opinion of mine it is not subject to factual dispute. I have seen no reason to reconsider my opinion, nor any attempt by anyone to articulate reasons why they hold a different opinion.

      I provided examples of “Christians” who are, in fact, anything but. This was in order to establish that simply claiming a religion is not enough to represent it, and also that claiming a holy book inspired violence does not mean that the book inspires violence. I allowed others to make these assertions for me, and they have.

      I explained why the religion or other personal beliefs of Presidential advisers is, in fact, irrelevant. I pulled a false dichotomy here to force others to disavow the fascists and serial killers mentioned earlier. So far, nobody has posited the contrary point. (That the personal beliefs of Presidential advisers effects their performance.)

      I brought up US Presidential power history, in an attempt to bring Article 2 of the US constitution into discussion. Nobody has yet indicated that they disagree with my interpretation of the limits of Presidential power. I ended this with a deliberately inflaming comment calculated to spur Bush supporters to respond.

      I indicated that having just one Muslim adviser, and thinking that he represented Islam as a whole, would be dangerous.

      I referenced the parable of the first stone, and two other New Testament passages. I implied by these that anyone who held a disagreeing opinion:
      1. Claimed that they, themselves, were without sin.
      2. Lacked in themselves the property of love/charity.
      3. Was being a bad neighbor.

      The quotations supported my position only tangentially, but were taken entirely in context. Their primary purpose was to preemptively state that Biblical passages would not be accepted as evidence.

      In my later posts, I sweetened the bait, promised rational discussion, defused the discussions I was not well-prepared to engage in (by offering to engage in them), started to mature the key point that the actions of a few individuals do not represent many, and brought up the Amish/Protestant modern comparison to show that different cultures can easily coexist. I also planted the seed that might grow into further discussion not yet begun.

      In this post, I responded directly to a direct, poorly worded attack, made only incidental comments on its quality, and brought my entire point and most of my thought process into the open. I will further engage in mild baiting in order to demonstrate to any casual reader the relative independent thought that is going into each response. (I have no doubts that any registered user is of either a similar mind to me, or is as similarly insensitive to discussion as the other respondents.) I will further offer an open invitation for an intellectual dialogue, hoping that someone will respond in kind so that we may understand each other’s opinions.

      Now, if you know any conservatives who might show me the reality behind my words, they may do so. If you, or any other Radical Christian wants to engage in rational discussion, or share a reasoned basis for a different opinion, the lectern is available to you as well.
      .
      .
      Edit: How wonderful- the edit button works. And you used to try to slip in another insult. It is so nice to know that you think I know with my heart who God is, but choose instead to use my mind to worship idols. I’m not sure what that has to do with the discussion at hand, but it is a wonderfully executed use of quotation out of context, since Paul was writing to Jews and early Christians in Rome, specifically about the Roman practice of worshiping idols, and of male homosexuality. (Two things not yet present in this thread). However, since I am not in any of the groups mentioned or alluded to in that chapter, nor have I asserted any kind of metaphysical access to truth or fact, your point misses entirely.

    • Rusty Shackleford says:

      decius said:

      “I only pointed out the correlation that serial killers are more likely to be Christian than they are to be Muslim.”

      Yup, cuz they can only blow themselves up once.

      All humor aside, this is the same old argument from the bigoted barrel. It saddens me. let’s take a moment and see if FDR wanted to have any Japanese in his cabinet. <>>

      Nope…..don’t see any.

      However, the argument that “All Muslims are killers” is a vacuous one. Just as the Christian rebuttal. Or, vice-versa.

      Perhaps Obama’s idea is praiseworthy but it still makes a lot of people nervous, as does anything that we, as people, don’t fully understand. As for me, I’m not that interested in understanding the religion of Islam. Just as I am not interested in having a Baptist minister explain the finer points of Christianity to me, as he understands them.

      Let’s face it folks, there are bad people in every religion, every government, every—-well—-THING.

      But let’s also pause and think what would happen if one of these “vetted” Muslims was discovered to have access to classified material..as in the Clinton years when foreign nationals had good looks at top secret documents.

      Admittedly, not the same thing.

      My point is that it makes folks nervous and many aren’t really sold on the idea yet, especially here since the new world order administration has done such a fine job of picking its members so well, so carefully and with every regard to character and ability. I am more concerned that putting a Muslim cabinet member would be a hollow position, just for show, without any real responsibility, much like the president is right now and two, I’d be more afraid of what might happen to the appointee, not from US citizens but from home-grown radical Muslims.

      Also, Obama is completely ignorant, or maybe he’s not, of the possibility of using this whole thing to start a race war…or religious war. Nobody’s religion is any better or worse than anybody else’s except in their own eyes.

      I get really sick of “my religion’s better’n yers”

      “oh yeah?”

      “yeah”

      “I’m tellin’ ”

      “go ahead…..”

      It’s bloody childish.

      Yes, the terrorists are all radical Muslims. Yes they feed on fear, hate and so on. But so did the Nazis, so did the Russian KGB, and on and on. Christianity is no great bastion of peace and almost no religion is or ever was.

      How the members of their religions choose to interpret their holy texts and who they listen to for guidance is perhaps key.

      Frankly though, I’m pretty sick of it.

      I wouldn’t like the guy he appoints simply because I don’t like anything he does. Religion has nothing to do with it.

    • decius says:

      Thank you, Rusty, for your honesty:

      >I wouldn’t like the guy he appoints simply because I don’t like anything he does. Religion has nothing to do with it.

      I would like to know the reasons why you will not like anything which President Obama might do. By your statement, you imply that you have a personal dislike for the man, and believe that he can do no right. Is that the case? Do you rather have a preconceived notion of what his response would be in any given situation?

      Have you invested yourself emotionally in his failure, and so hope that his decisions will turn out poorly?

      Or have you looked at the decisions he has made, disagreed with them, and predict that the pattern will not change?

      Or is your opinion based on something more complicated?

    • jobeth says:

      Derius, you are a pompus windbag. You mistake wordiness for “valid points”. (Ever been taught to be concise and to the point, egghead?)

      You giving us “the lectern” is a prime example of your conceit. Its not YOUR lectern to give.

      I had a brother-in-law who was a lot like you. So full of convoluted minutia and twisted facts. He actually believed he was “winning” his point. It was actually funny.

      We all laughed at him and made fun of him. Not a first, but like you he just kept on and on, trying to engage people in his idiotic “theories”.

      My first clue to your big headed self love is your comment “my thesis”. Then your constant baiting us to prove you wrong. Then your “giving us the lectern”.

      And the best, was when you tell us that “reasonable people” would understand your points.

      Who are YOU dear one, to pronounce YOUR opinion as the only “reasonable” opinion? And who are you to speak for “reasonable people”?

      It’s ONLY your opinion, to which you are intitled.

      But knowing the people on this blog as I do, I KNOW THEY are the ones that are reasonable. And that is MY opinion.

      So where does that get us? You thinking that ONLY your opinion is reasonable and WE should change OUR opinion. Nope. Won’t happen.

      You seem to think you are at a University Debate. Are you unable to reconize and informal conservative blog site? You are at the wrong forum for a thesis. This is an informal blog site, in case you can’t reconize one.

      Which brings me to the point of my “answer” to you. You don’t want to exchange ideas and/or informal comments. You want to “razzle dazzle” us with your “immense brain” and “thesis”.

      Well, you don’t. I, and I believe a few others, think you to be a pompus fool. You don’t impress anyone here.

      We know what we believe and we don’t have to “prove” anything to you. I know that is a shocker.

      But….hey, one just can’t argue with a fool. You know what they say…The only fool bigger than a fool is the person who argues with a fool. So I won’t argue. And if you think we are fools, what does that make you, if you continue?

      Soooo…..I am NOT going to engage in your long winded diatribes. They are full of misconceptions, and so empty of understanding, and so judgemental of anyone else’s point of view, it would be a waste of my time.

      As I said this is a conservative blog. Which means we have conservative views. And I hate to burst your little balloon, but your ‘immense brain” and “thesis” can’t change that and don’t impress. You and your pathetic arguments are not that bright.

      Simply YOU are a pitiful pompus idiot.

    • Rusty Shackleford says:

      decius, to answer your odd question:

      I watched him (Obama) very carefully since I became aware of him. Then, checking on his track record and his relative political obscurity with a sudden thrust into the limelight. America loves an underdog but both as a conservative thinker, a veteran and a student of human nature, I think he is living in that Utopian dreamworld that is only realized in science fiction novels.

      I detest his lack of work experience

      I detest any politician’s brand of “honesty” but especially his due to his arrogant, condescending demeanor and patently rehearsed superior attitude. I’ve worked for inept people like him and watching his mannerisms and hearing his choice of words, I find him very out of his league.

      He is neither a leader nor a charismatic personality. I do not buy into celebrity. I believe that in order to be credible, a man must have done credible things. An idea, even a good one, without the benefit of experience sells well on TV when the quiet kid comes up with the answer that saves the day but this president has no more credibility than a used car salesmen.

      And that is what he is. And because a vast majority of Americans LOVE to be sold something, they bought his schtick. And, his habit patterns seem to wax mainly from how to finagle and coerce people to do what he wants rather than stand behind an idea and be strong about it.

      Remember Bush? Yeah..the guy who everybody hates? He understood terrorism. He knew why we had to go OVER THERE when they CAME OVER HERE. But this president is neither a veteran nor a scholar. He is a practiced maneuverer; A schlocky, slick, shiny salesman.

      I do not want his policies as they are patently wrong. Before Rush ever said it; Before Ann Coulter every pointed it out; Before any conservative on any blog mentioned it: You cannot spend or borrow your way out of debt. You cannot defeat an enemy bent on killing you by appeasement and “negotiation”. Those radical Muslims will not go away. We in the US for years wondered how long it would take before they would want to drag the West into their stupid little ideological crapola.

      And yes, I am angry for all US leaders who let us get sucked in. Perhaps it was inevitable.

      They have sworn destruction to Israel, to the West, to all non natural born Muslims. But here’s a hot tip: The number one killer of Muslims is…..Muslims.

      Call me a protectionist and a naive isolationist but this president is the wrong guy. I am against what he stands for, which so far as I, alone…without any help from anyone else, appears to be socialism, taking from the rich to REDISTRIBUTE to the poor who neither deserve it, nor are willing to work for it.

      I came up from nothing. I started out with zero in my pocket. Unlike my peers who wanted to go party and laugh it up, I ended up in the Air Force. I worked hard, I put myself through college and earned an officer’s commission. I am moderately successful as a professional in the field of aviation. I have had my life changed drastically by diabetes and now a thyroid problem but never ONCE did I expect the GOVERNMENT to take care of me. When unemployed I still bought my own insulin….saw the doctor if I could. I had no problems with the fact that I could die if I couldn’t get or afford the care I needed.

      Our society is founded on that.

      It’s called “tough darts” and all my life I’ve accepted that.

      This president thinks completely 180 degrees out from me. He believes that the number one job of government is to CONTROL people and DECIDE what’s best for them. That, in a word, is socialism. I despise it, I get angry at the new and entangled way the government gets into my life regardless of which party it is…but I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.

      I do NOT want, among other things this idiot wants to do, to have my healthcare administered by the same bozos at the DMV.

      He believes that global warming is real. And whether it is or not isn’t the point. I take umbrage to him because he has not bothered to read, study or do any self-investigation on the matter. He simply adheres to the tired old dogma that the democrats have been spouting for quite some time.

      He never served this country in uniform. I have little to no respect for any able-bodied person who doesn’t. I have lived in many other countries and seen what socialism does and how people get comfortable with the government controlling their lives. These are nations with ridiculous tax rates.

      That is not the system I believe in. He, unfortunately thinks that it’s the answer. But history has shown that it fails. It fails over and over and over again.

      Insanity is the doing the same thing, the same way over and over, expecting different results.

    • decius says:

      Well then, we have a few key differences in that.

      You say he lacks experience, but I feel he still has idealism and hope.

      I don’t see arrogance or condescension in his manner; I see someone who accepts responsibility and knows his limits.

      You say he doesn’t stand behind an ideal; I see that all he has is an ideal, not an example of realizing it.

      Bush’s policies did more to inflame the world than they did to reduce tensions.

      You hold a different economic model, one in which the government is a business. I hold that the Treasury should issue fiat currency equivalent to the value of goods in circulation.

      We have obviously seen different economic policies- I have seen him making government and big business bigger, while you have seen him creating a socialist state.

      I believe that a social “safety net” to prevent temporary hardships from becoming fatal, is important. Private charities handle some of it rather well, but don’t have the budget to deal with the big picture. I have seen the government fail at social welfare as well, so I don’t have a good answer to the problem.

      A volunteer military means just that- volunteer. If he choose not to serve, that does not make him a bad person.

      Every form of government ever tried in history has failed. Including the representative democratic republic we now use.

      It took a long time, but I actually learned something useful from you. Thanks.

    • Rusty Shackleford says:

      >Well then, we have a few key differences in that.

      >You say he lacks experience, but I feel he still has idealism and hope.

      Idealism is fine. But when it is based on a lack of real-world experience, it is a misguided concept. I said before that he has never been anything but coddled. This is due to the fact that MY life experience tells me certain things about his manner. And that manner indicates to me arrogance and an insecurity that manifests itself as superiority. Additionally, and I’ll say this only once, because it is pervasive in all of my arguments and should be understood to underline my points. Bush was labeled by the mainstream media as a bumbler, bungler, and poor, stammering speaker. He was criticized for a lot of things and still is. However, you will not near of same from the mainstream media about Obama. The MSM is so ridiculously infatuated with him that it cannot be interpreted as anything other than “star worship”. So far he is pathetic at public speaking, but worse, cannot come up with a single, definitive, independent thought of his own without the teleprompter. I’m sure you’ve noted the jokes about it. His lack of experience reveals itself when a tough question comes, which is rarely due to the aforementioned love affair the media has with this guy.

      >I don’t see arrogance or condescension in his manner; I see someone who accepts responsibility and knows his limits.

      Accepts responsibility. The US has demanded he produce documents that he is a natural born US citizen. He has evaded the issue. He has an illegal alien aunt living in public housing and she has been subjected to scrutiny but never arrested. And though there is much more, he tells us all to be “responsible” with our use of fossil fuels yet he jets off to Chicago from DC….not once, but TWICE….two round trips….perhaps he forgot his Blackberry…and you may not be aware of this but it’s not JUST the one 747 that goes. BOTH 747’s go. As well as one or sometimes TWO C-17’s that hold the limousines and the Secret Service members. Tell me how “responsible” that is. Add to that…a jaunt to LA to be on Leno. That, to me, is self-aggrandizement. And I don’t buy the argument that it was to “show the people he’s ‘just like us’ “. Well….for the record, people “just like me” don’t go on Leno. Movie stars and pro-athletes go on Leno. Then…he’s on “60 Minutes”. Bear in mind he takes the company jet to do this.

      Responsible? Compared to him, Bill-Jeff was “responsible” when he was ditching the Secret Service to go get laid.

      >You say he doesn’t stand behind an ideal; I see that all he has is an ideal, not an example of realizing it.

      And his ideal is fundamentally flawed. It is borne of ideas he learned from radical leftists bent on internal destruction of society under the often false premise of “racist America” And, by the way, affirmative action has failed….as predicted by those who were labeled “racist” in the 60’s the 70’s and today. When you make it easy…..they take it easy. If you make it a challenge, those who really want it and by definition, deserve it, will rise to the challenge and EARN it. The racist, bigoted black community leaders decided to beg for special programs and then when they got them turned around and called it carrot baiting….to keep blacks in line. Nothing was every further from the truth.

      But Obama’s ideas are dangerously flirting with socialism and some are right up in it. Socialized medicine…bad idea. Or, maybe good idea but when people are involved in running it, like any government bureaucracy, it fails. It becomes too big of an entity and too much gets left up to bureaucrats. Like I said, I refuse to have my health decided by someone who is no better than those at the DMV. That’s what “government job” usually means. Usually overpaid, usually underskilled and for the most part….it also means “cannot be fired”.

      >Bush’s policies did more to inflame the world than they did to reduce tensions.

      Bush had a job to do. Sorry you can’t see why. Bill-Jeff’s reaction to terrorist actions were to get his lawyers together and make it illegal to commit terrorist acts against the US. Or, launch a few poorly aimed cruise missiles at some rocks in the desert. Bin Laden was offered to him on a silver platter. He refused. When a guy comes over to your house and burns it down and kills your family, do you just sit there? No, you probably react to it. Some call the police…some take matters into their own hands. And, seeing as how the US happens to be, by default, the WORLD’s police force, in a “damned if we do, damned if we don’t” sort of way, who was about to come to the aide of the US when we had to go find the people responsible. And let’s say the guy who burned your house down….his neighbor was in on it. How would you want to deal with that?

      Bush had a relatively easy decision to make and remember, the democratically controlled congress, to include one Ms Clinton….gave severely inflammatory speeches condemning the parties responsible and all but demanding we go to war. To say they were duped by Bush because of faulty info….intentionally….well. I don’t buy that. I have read military intel reports and unfortunately, the American public still thinks that we can get any information we want like they do in a James Bond film. Ironically, at the same time, these same people are paranoid that they think the US is spying on them. There’s that damned-do/don’t thing. If Bush did nothing…do you not think that Congress and Obama would be blaming him anyway, but form the other side of the hallway?

      >You hold a different economic model, one in which the government is a business. I hold that the Treasury should issue fiat currency equivalent to the value of goods in circulation.

      Not necessarily. I hold that government should keep its grubby mitts OUT of business with exception of some regulation to keep things fair. But aye, there lies the rub. In the 60’s the 70’s the 80’s and so on…..liberal democrats kept lobbying and demanding that banking regulations be loosened up so that more poor (specifically, blacks, as was agenda driven by same liberal democrats) could get a home of their own. Although it is a part of the American dream…ii is not a RIGHT. Our government is there to protect the RIGHT of the people to reach as far as they can grasp; to go as far as they can, unfettered by interference from not only other people but from the government itself.

      Some people have warped that idea to have it mean that they are ENTITLED to a house, a car, an education, healthcare, etc etc. Well, nations that provide those things can also take them away and the founders of this nation, fed up with King George and his whimsical royal ways, decided to make the government have as little influence on personal property ownership and business as possible. It irks conservatives when we have to pay more for something because there’s another tax. Compare the percentage of take home pay in 1960 to today and you will see the increase in government spending, more taking….and if you’ve never noticed….how do you make yourself poor? Let the government control the money. Remember the $800 hammer for the military? But, it is especially irksome when elected officials throw the number “trillion” around like it’s a friggin beach ball. If you lined up 3 trillion dollar bills end to end, they would reach to the Moon, and then some.

      >We have obviously seen different economic policies- I have seen him making government and big business bigger, while you have seen him creating a socialist state.

      I have seen him want to control big business and the banks. That is socialism. The government now controls 80% of AIG. That means that investors won’t go NEAR it. Business people know how money works and the government is a money-vacuum.

      >I believe that a social “safety net” to prevent temporary hardships from becoming fatal, is important. Private charities handle some of it rather well, but don’t have the budget to deal with the big picture. I have seen the government fail at social welfare as well, so I don’t have a good answer to the problem.

      That, again, is not what our founders intended. Like it or not. This nation is the most generous and charitable, not just at home but worldwide. Incidentally, it’s been documented repeatedly that liberals donate significantly less money to charity than do conservatives. Social welfare, the very words themselves make it clear what you believe. Then move to a socialist country and see how well it works.

      >A volunteer military means just that- volunteer. If he choose not to serve, that does not make him a bad person.

      Nope, it doesn’t. But they’re not on my Christmas card list, either. The part about it is this. I am glad that it’s all volunteer…but I have heard far more bitching and moaning from non-volunteers about the “evil” military than I ever did about the reverse from military personnel. And, although you may miss the point, I would suggest you rent a copy of “A Few Good Men” where Jack Nicholson delivers a very good soliloquy that summarizes the sentiment. Although the character in the movie broke the law, and the point of the writers was to paint him as an evil villain, they had no idea that the words they used were very much in the hearts of the men and women who do serve. It is a very difficult existence, no matter what rank you are or what job you have in the military. Sacrifice, going to places you’d rather not but sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States. No, they are not robots. They have some say in what they do. Not always but it’s not the colonel giving an order to “go over there and kill those civilians”. If people who have never served actually believe that, then they need to have their heads examined. And that’s what gets me about “journalists”. Even if they spend a couple of days with a forward operating unit, they think they “know” them. They think they have accumulated all they could ever need to report on it.

      But the quote goes: “You live under the very blanket of the freedom that I provide and then question the manner in which I provide it”.

      Again, and granted, he had broken the law. But I am using the quote to direct it more at the notion that the general public, who by and large are ignorant of military life, mindset, habits and devotion to duty, often don’t’ just question the method or need, but they openly criticize it.

      >Every form of government ever tried in history has failed. Including the representative democratic republic we now use.

      Yup…and many of us in this country are trying very hard to keep this form of government from failing. Obama seems hell-bent to realize a dream of socialism. At least half of this nation believes that to be the absolute wrong direction, as do I. You seem predetermined to let it be a fait complet. It is not. Studying government while in college as an elective, I learned that our system, over time, will gradually creep toward more and more socialism. However, there are limits and the PEOPLE have the right in this country to say NO. However, I feel us losing ground to those who are born into an entitlement mentality, where they’ve never had to work for anything, where there is no competition, and everything is FAIR.

      Well, there we are. That old 60’s argument between the Korean War vet and his hippy son who had the car keys taken away. “That’s not fair’. “Life is not fair, son”. And the problem with the hippy is that the lesson he learned was the wrong one. That that unfairness should be the basis to work hard, earn money, elevate oneself to a point where one can have more room and freedom. Because, yes, money in a capitalist IS freedom. No, not the kind where you buy others off when you break the law…I’m referring to the money that allows one a better education, better homes, better lifestyle. Socialism just puts everyone at the risk of losing their home to the government when they steamroll in to take it.

      >It took a long time, but I actually learned something useful from you. Thanks.

      Your welcome.

    • decius says:

      Bush was labeled by the mainstream media as a bumbler, bungler, and poor, stammering speaker.

      He is. But that doesn’t make him any better or worse of a speaker.

      He was criticized for a lot of things and still is. However, you will not near of same from the mainstream media about Obama. The MSM is so ridiculously infatuated with him that it cannot be interpreted as anything other than “star worship”. So far he is pathetic at public speaking, but worse, cannot come up with a single, definitive, independent thought of his own without the teleprompter. I’m sure you’ve noted the jokes about it. His lack of experience reveals itself when a tough question comes, which is rarely due to the aforementioned love affair the media has with this guy.

      Tough questions? Like, what are you going to do about Gitmo? “Get rid of it”, what are you going to do about Iraq “Accomplish the Mission and get out” what are you going to do about [mess that GWB left] “Clean it up” what do you think about the financial situation? “I don’t know enough about it, but I have the person who does, and I take full responsibility for their actions.”

      The answers are simple, direct and honest, and those are the kinds of answers I’ve heard. What have I been missing?

      Accepts responsibility. The US has demanded he produce documents that he is a natural born US citizen. He has evaded the issue.

      Can you document your place of birth so easily? How simple is it to get vital records documentation from Chicago?

      I have different issues with his energy policy; Mostly, he has not pushed nuclear power nearly hard enough. Fewer than 50 reactors are on the drawing board -nationwide-.

      And his ideal is fundamentally flawed. It is borne of ideas he learned from radical leftists bent on internal destruction of society under the often false premise of “racist America” And, by the way, affirmative action has failed….as predicted by those who were labeled “racist” in the 60’s the 70’s and today. When you make it easy…..they take it easy. If you make it a challenge, those who really want it and by definition, deserve it, will rise to the challenge and EARN it. The racist, bigoted black community leaders decided to beg for special programs and then when they got them turned around and called it carrot baiting….to keep blacks in line. Nothing was every further from the truth.

      It was Gen Colin Powell who said “I have never had a problem with racism in the Army because I am not, myself, racist. The only people who have had problems with racism in the Army are racists.” [I may have the quotation imperfect.]

      The issue with affirmative action is that it is racist. Most specifically, it keeps the poor WHITE people from getting a fair shot, while giving the minorities of all classes a leg up. Poor white people then work to destroy the system keeping them down, which results in more racism.

      But Obama’s ideas are dangerously flirting with socialism and some are right up in it. Socialized medicine…bad idea. Or, maybe good idea but when people are involved in running it, like any government bureaucracy, it fails.

      I agree, but I also know that congress will not pass a socialized medicine bill, even with Presidential prodding.

      Bush’s policies did more to inflame the world than they did to reduce tensions.

      Bush had a job to do. Sorry you can’t see why. Bill-Jeff’s reaction to terrorist actions were to get his lawyers together and make it illegal to commit terrorist acts against the US. When a guy comes over to your house and burns it down and kills your family, do you just sit there? No, you probably react to it. Some call the police…some take matters into their own hands. And, seeing as how the US happens to be, by default, the WORLD’s police force, in a “damned if we do, damned if we don’t” sort of way, who was about to come to the aide of the US when we had to go find the people responsible. And let’s say the guy who burned your house down….his neighbor was in on it. How would you want to deal with that?

      Well, to use your analogy, I might start by moving my semi-trailer off of his driveway, keeping my pit bull out of his back porch, and in general not letting my nephews play in his house without his permission anymore.

      Oh, and maybe stop changing who owns their house, based on who I think will sell me the most oil.

      Bush had a relatively easy decision to make and remember, the democratically controlled congress, to include one Ms Clinton….gave severely inflammatory speeches condemning the parties responsible and all but demanding we go to war. To say they were duped by Bush because of faulty info….intentionally….well. I don’t buy that. I have read military intel reports and unfortunately, the American public still thinks that we can get any information we want like they do in a James Bond film. Ironically, at the same time, these same people are paranoid that they think the US is spying on them. There’s that damned-do/don’t thing. If Bush did nothing…do you not think that Congress and Obama would be blaming him anyway, but form the other side of the hallway?

      I’ve been in the military. I find it entirely believable that Saddam wanted everyone to know he had chemical SCUDs. It kept the Israelis in line, it kept the Iranians mostly in check, and it kept the rest of the world, bar us, from playing in his sandbox.

      I hold that government should keep its grubby mitts OUT of business with exception of some regulation to keep things fair. But aye, there lies the rub.

      The economic model I was proposing hasn’t been implemented anywhere, yet. It would require that government deficit be equal to the increase of total value, and surplus be equal to decrease in total value. Measuring those two things (Actual surplus/deficit and total value) is, in itself, unfeasible. The next best thing is to run the government like a corporation, vary the money supply based on known factors, and let the market move. Regulation of monopolies is a separate issue, and I am divided on that one myself.

      Some people have warped that idea to have it mean that they are ENTITLED to a house, a car, an education, healthcare, etc etc. Well, nations that provide those things can also take them away and the founders of this nation, fed up with King George and his whimsical royal ways, decided to make the government have as little influence on personal property ownership and business as possible. It irks conservatives when we have to pay more for something because there’s another tax. Compare the percentage of take home pay in 1960 to today and you will see the increase in government spending, more taking….and if you’ve never noticed….how do you make the yourself poor? Let the government control the money. Remember the $800 hammer for the military? But, it is especially irksome when elected officials throw the number “trillion” around like it’s a friggin beach ball. If you lined up 3 trillion dollar bills end to end, they would reach to the Moon, and then some.

      The best synonym I have ever seen of the word “Right” is “Opportunity”. You have the “Right” to whatever you can get and keep. Want a house? Here’s the terms of the loan, or if you’ve got the cash, that works too.

      I’ve seen $800 military hammers, and I’ve Civilian-Non-Government-Contractors need to have a $600 socket sent by Courier across the country on passenger airline because FedEx overnight service wasn’t FAST enough. (It would have cost a few thousand more to rent the crane for another day, and only several hundred extra to pay the overtime to keep the crew there long enough to finish the job that night.)

      I have seen him want to control big business and the banks. That is socialism. The government now controls 80% of AIG. That means that investors won’t go NEAR it. Business people know how money works and the government is a money-vacuum.

      It would be socialism if the government were running the business for the people. They might do that. They also might run the business for profit, and put the profit in the coffers. They could also sell the business to the Chinese in exchange for the deficit money. I don’t know which I fear most, but the mistake was in buying the company.

      That, again, is not what our founders intended. Like it or not. This nation is the most generous and charitable, not just at home but worldwide. Incidentally, it’s been documented repeatedly that liberals donate significantly less money to charity than do conservatives. Social welfare, the very words themselves make it clear what you believe. Then move to a socialist country and see how well it works.

      Social welfare- the well-being of society. I refuse to believe that we are charitable enough when I can find apartments to rent in the same city as I can find people sleeping on park benches (not by choice).

      A volunteer military means just that- volunteer. If he choose not to serve, that does not make him a bad person.

      Nope, it doesn’t. But they’re not on my Christmas card list, either. The part about it is this. I am glad that it’s all volunteer…but I have heard far more bitching and moaning from non-volunteers about the “evil” military than I ever did about the reverse from military personnel. And, although you may miss the point, I would suggest you rent a copy of “A Few Good Men” where Jack Nicholson delivers a very good soliloquy that summarizes the sentiment. Although the character in the movie broke the law, and the point of the writers was to paint him as an evil villain, they had no idea that the words they used were very much in the hearts of the men and women who do serve. It is a very difficult existence, no matter what rank you are or what job you have in the military. Sacrifice, going to places you’d rather not but sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States. No, they are not robots. They have some say in what they do. Not always but it’s not the colonel giving an order to “go over there and kill those civilians”. If people who have never served actually believe that, then they need to have their heads examined. And that’s what gets me about journalists. Even if they spend a couple of days with a forward operating unit, they think they “know” them. They think they have accumulated all they could ever need to report on it.

      I’ve been in the military, and I’ve delivered that monologue. (Not at the same time) From “You want the truth.” to “Then I suggest you pick up a weapon and man a post.”

      I was told that I needed to understand an order in order to obey it, but I was never told how to refuse an order that I thought was illegal. Given the strength of training and the relative inexperience of soldiers through E-4, I would not be surprised if they were socially incapable of refusing an order. Refreshingly, I would also not be surprised if the senior enlisted chose to shoot whoever gave them a blatantly illegal order.

      I was actually discharged for saying “I believe that deploying strategic nuclear weapons would, due to their nature and accuracy, target civilians. I refuse to allow my action or inaction allow civilians to be targeted.” My official record, of which I have a copy, confirms this (Although my phrasing has improved in the last four years, the concept is the same.)

      Since then I have also recognized that the oath was to “Uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC” (emphasis mine), with no exclusion for the chain of command. I plant that thought as I can, among what few military connections I still have.

      Yup…and many of us in this country are trying very hard to keep this form of government from failing. Obama seems hell-bent to realize a dream of socialism. At least half of this nation believes that to be the absolute wrong direction, as do I. You seem predetermined to let it be a fait complet. It is not. Studying government while in college as an elective, I learned that our system, over time, will gradually creep toward more and more socialism. However, there are limits and the PEOPLE have the right in this country to say NO. However, I feel us losing ground to those who are born into an entitlement mentality, where they’ve never had to work for anything, where there is no competition, and everything is FAIR.

      Actually, I expect that Obama will let slip the power that GWB illegally seized for the Presidency, and his inexperience and consoling/compliant personality will allow a few Senators to walk all over him. I expect he will be the weakest president in recent history. I just hope he is pressured to dismantle the security apparatus that GWB assembled. (TSA, DHS, executive wiretapping, etc.) The government should not be allowed to protect itself from the people.

      Well, there we are. That old 60’s argument between the Korean War vet and his hippy son who had the car keys taken away. “That’s not fair’. “Life is not fair, son”. And the problem with the hippy is that the lesson he learned was the wrong one. That that unfairness should be the basis to work hard, earn money, elevate oneself to a point where one can have more room and freedom. Because, yes, money in a capitalist IS freedom. No, not the kind where you buy others off when you break the law…I’m referring to the money that allows one a better education, better homes, better lifestyle. Socialism just puts everyone at the risk of losing their home to the government when they steamroll in to take it.

      Socialism, properly run, means that everyone has a free home, free necessities and a job, but very little take-home pay. Socialism, poorly run, means either that everybody has a house, but not everybody has a job, or that only everybody with a job has a house.

      I don’t trust anyone well enough to put them in charge of a full socialism.

      The same problem is true of every other socioeconomic model- I don’t trust anyone to be in charge. That’s the benefit of the quasi-anarchic capitalism- Nobody’s ever really in charge. It’s run in a bumbling, semi-competent manner all the time, but it rarely gets much worse. Notable exception: When greed or politics from above lead to putting a large portion of the total money into inefficiently priced products.

      And that post at the bottom is written exclusively for canary.

  20. polemos says:

    Quote
    “Most serial killers in America are devout Christians. Some examples:
    David Berkowitz, called the SON OF SAM;
    The Yorkshire Rapier;
    Sampson Kanderayi, called The Ax Killer;
    Watts, The Sunday Morning Slasher;
    Jeffery Dahmer

    All were very devout Christians.”

    This was ment as a joke right? You can call yourself a christian all day long but if you are an unrepentant murderer you don’t meet the requirements that Jesus layed out. No murderer (present tense) shall enter the kingdom of God.
    Stalin …..lol

    • decius says:

      Actually, no. I was dead serious. (No pun intended.)

      Jesus also laid out other requirements: Love thy neighbor as thyself, sin can be committed by the heart, etc.

      I say now: If you look upon a man and wish him dead, you have already committed murder in your heart. To beg for forgiveness while still murdering in your heart is futile, you must first stop sinning.

      Also, is there no point of mutual acceptance? Can I not have a government free of ALL religion, in which ALL religions may be free? I coexist with Amish, and do not force my culture on them, nor do they force their religious views and choices even on their own children.

      Stalin:
      In 1894, at the age of 16, he enrolled at the Georgian Orthodox Seminary of Tiflis, to which he had been awarded a scholarship.
      Ref: Simon Sebag Montefiore. Young Stalin. 2007. ISBN 9780297850687

    • polemos says:

      Stalin was converted as it were to a Marxist revolutionary not to Jesus. Oh and a brutal stone cold killer who personally murdered his opponents and ordered the death of millions. The question of where he attended school is absurd in connection to your point.

      History is replete with examples of fine pedigrees and educations wasted at the hands narrowminded persons too full of self and sin to leave this world a better place when they expire.

      The muderers you mentioned were not at the time of their killings christian. If you are using the new testament as the standard in defining what Christ-like behavior should look like not one man listed was a christian. You quote the new testament on one hand and with the next line forget it exsists.

    • decius says:

      Now that we have established that actions determine religion, and not words, schools, culture, parentage, etc., do you think that mass killers can be True Muslims? If so, do you think that people who aren’t mass killers can be True Muslims?

    • caligirl9 says:

      Didn’t most of those guys “find God” once they got into prison, just like many inmates do?

  21. canary says:

    decius “After all, the public belief is that everyone who believes in Mohammad is a terrorist anti-American anti-woman anti-freedom sociopath.”

    But it is true according to Mohammad and the Qu’ran. Our pris Obama allready knows the Qu’ran from his mother, according to his Dreams book. I just wish the other idiots would read it. It’s in the Qu’ran to take over the world, the entire world must convert to Muslim, or die.
    We know why suicide bombers are increasing here, and in Middle-East countries. “Innocent crowds” Because the muslims do not allow straying from and the penality is death. The more freedom in your country, the more killing, Afganistan back to throwing acid in little girls faces because they go to school.

    Deluis “I would actually prefer an American Muslim to an American Christian.”

    That is because Mohammad wants to kill everyone in the world that isn’t Muslim. That is your commandment, if you don’t, then you too will be killed for not fullfilling those scriptures. Every act of murder, chopping off heads, executing women in arena’s while you applaud and chant.
    You believe in Mohammad’s Quran, simply because a degenerate fooled you all that God told him to add to your religious book. .

    Decius “Most serial killers in America are devout Christians”.

    Not true. Not devout Christians, either. The ones you site were nuts. Muslims on the other hand are brainwashed weaklings.

    Further the worst and most serial killers in America and this world, are Muslims with bombs. Japan bombed America. Don’t forget idiot, WTC bombed twice. Saddam Hussien financed OKC federal building, Stalin hated Christans and Jews. But muslims hate anyone that doesn’t follow Mohammad and the Qu’ran.

    Deluus:(If I didn’t, I still wouldn’t care, I would want them out anyway.) Unless you think Muslims are somehow less reliable then known serial killers and dictators, you must agree.

    You don’t want them “out”. Muslims want them dead. The mulims’s quaran wnat the entire world to Mohammeds beliefs or be slain. Worse than Hitler’s goal.
    You are so evil and telling.

    Deluis ” and assume that that one person represents the beliefs of a significant number of American Muslims, or worse, Muslims worldwide.”

    Your beliefs are your beliefs. If you wander, you die.

    Delius “Who was it that cast the first stone here? I realize that stoning an adulteress is a Jewish law”

    You idiot the Qu’ran is taken from many old Jewish laws only changed to be murderous and evil, and Muslims do worse than stone women. And they throw shoes.

    Deluis ” not a Christian one, but how long since you have applied 1 Corinthians 13? Or is charity/love reserved for whites of the appropriate faith? Need I point out Luke 10:25-37?” “I’’m sorry that I had to quote chapter and verse in context, but I lack the skill to take out of context quotes to support my opinion. Maybe someone else who has that skill could use it to demonstrate a counterexample.

    Yes it must have been horrendous for you to read a Christan bible, but
    your Muslim Quran is the opposite. Kill anyone and everyone that doesn’t convert to Muslim. Beat the sinner til they go back to following Mohammed, then they are forgiven. Hate the world who isn’t Muslim. No mercy. No forgiveness for anyone that isn’t Muslim.

    And while you may think your some educated Muslim scholar, let me explain that such as Patrick Henry’s speech, text books today take out the Christianity
    and God, in his original speech. Prayer has been taken out of school becuase of the likes of you. I do hope you stay, but would prefer you quote you Quran so you can provide some education to this country, who are not aware of the true Muslims and the fact that allthough treated like royality in this country, still hate America. You can’t even stop your pursuit in this country, or you will be killed if you don’t choose martyr dumb.
    This to you Delius, “In the name of Jesus. Jesus. In the name of God, In the name of Yaweh and Yashuha.” the evil the Qu’ran forces, will be defeated, for eternity.

    • jobeth says:

      Beautifully said Canary.

      About the only thing I would add for Delius to consider is that his god FORCES people to worship him. Our God, gives us a choice. We are His by choice not by force. His god commands death and hate, our God offers life and love.

      Delius, what kind of god/God do YOU want to spend eternity with? One of hate or one of love.

    • canary says:

      Yes, I wondering the same, but since he wants more muslims, I’d say he’s a muslim. The extremist muslims, always quote the same scriptures as Deluis did.
      Even cowardly Saddam Hussien in some of his last words said “Even Jesus Forgives”.

      Delius “There are a similar number of Muslims who disavow the “Muslim” extremists.”

      But, Delius it’s too late for you personally, to throw that propaganda of saying Mohammad is love thy neighbor. Even pris Obama and Pelosi are saying muslims believe in Christan principals. What better way with their idols watching on TV who don’t know a thing about Muslim religion.
      Your Mohammed and Qu’ran, says to slay the non-extremist Muslims, so you would be slayed, if not one of them. Look at the protests in this country when Isreal after years and years of being killed by you, decided to fight back. All you lying non-extremists and your murderous signs and words, showed your true murderous beliefs.
      So, Delius why don’t you practice what you preach, and invite the gitmo prisoners coming here to be released to live with you. Tell them you are against extremists as mentioned in Mohammed’s Qu’ran.

      Delius writes like Bill Ayers. A lot of Obama’s older writings are just like Bill Ayers, both admitting to be liars. Course Bill Ayers recently wrote that he wasn’t happy with Obama’s picks, so probably why Obama doesn’t play all those clause, plauses, phrases and all anymore. He has to use a teleprompter.
      There’s books on how to write like you are smart. My son’s English teacher even said Obama wasn’t that smart, he just writes so he looks smart, and our if our children learned to speak that way, even if they weren’t smart they could get a job easier.
      Delius’s writing is worthless when the facts and opinion’s are that of an uneducated deviant idiot, who is forgot to name Bill Ayers on his list of hero’s followed by lies.

    • decius says:

      Which verses of the Koran mention the things you say? Despite your baseless accusations, I am not Muslim, but Heathen. I have read the Koran, but in passing; I have studied the Old and New Testament, and parts of the Apocrypha, because they have been misused in moral discussions.

      How’s that quoting out of context going? You’re busted on this one:
      “I realize that stoning an adulteress is a Jewish law, not a Christian one, but how long since you have applied 1 Corinthians 13?”

      A statement pointing out that hyper-orthodox Jewish law and many hyper-orthodox Christian laws are as unfair, murderous, and bloody, as hyper-orthodox Islamic law. At the same time it points out that charity/love without regard to culture is a part of Christian teaching.

      Becomes “I realize that stoning an adulteress is a Jewish law” Implying that I am accusing Judaism of being bloody and violent.
      and “not a Christian one, but how long since you have applied 1 Corinthians 13?”
      Where you get the then-baseless assertion that I am not, myself, a Christian (That happens to be true).

      I do note that you didn’t respond to the implicit accusation, instead choosing to use incorrect terminology to discuss Islam and make unfounded assertions about the subject matter of the Koran.

      Also, the fact that you addressed me seven times and got my name right once indicates your respect for my person. Therefore, I request that if you want to discuss my opinions and ideas, you do so formally. Provide references for, rephrase as opinion, or withdraw the following assertions:

      1:But it [everyone who believes in Mohammad is a terrorist anti-American anti-woman anti-freedom sociopath] is true according to Mohammad and the Qu’ran.
      2:It’s in the Qu’ran to take over the world, the entire world must convert to Muslim, or die.
      3:We know why suicide bombers are increasing here, and in Middle-East countries. “Innocent crowds”
      4:Because the muslims do not allow straying from and the penality is death.
      5:The more freedom in your country, the more killing,
      6:That is because Mohammad wants to kill everyone in the world that isn’t Muslim.
      7:That is your commandment,
      8: if you don’t, then you too will be killed for not fullfilling those scriptures.
      9: Every act of murder, chopping off heads, executing women in arena’s while you applaud and chant.
      10: You believe in Mohammad’s Quran,
      11: simply because a degenerate fooled you all that God told him to add to your religious book. .
      12:Muslims on the other hand are brainwashed weaklings.
      13:You don’t want them “out”.
      14: Muslims want them dead.
      15: The mulims’s quaran wnat the entire world to Mohammeds beliefs or be slain.
      16: You are so evil and telling.
      17:If you wander, you die.
      18:[You idiot the Qu’ran is taken from many old Jewish laws -conceded-]
      {only changed to be murderous and evil -reference for this portion-}
      19:your Muslim Quran is the opposite.
      20: Kill anyone and everyone that doesn’t convert to Muslim.
      21: Beat the sinner til they go back to following Mohammed,
      22: then they are forgiven.
      23: Hate the world who isn’t Muslim.
      24: No mercy.
      25: No forgiveness for anyone that isn’t Muslim.
      26: Prayer has been taken out of school becuase of the likes of you.
      27: this country, who are not aware of the true Muslims and the fact that allthough treated like royality in this country, still hate America.
      28: You can’t even stop your pursuit in this country, or you will be killed if you don’t choose martyr dumb.

      Most of these should be a simple matter of referring to the Koran (or Qu’ran, if you prefer), and noting the location in standard format. Those relating to me, personally, I will consider withdrawn without prejudice. Those addressed to me, but referring to Muslims or to a specific Muslim, please clarify.

      Jobeth: My gods do not force worship, nor do they make threats of eternal damnation against those who ‘choose’ not to worship them. My afterlife shall be measured by my deeds, and I do not expect to deserve to feast with the elect, but I will have a seat in the same hall.

      edit: cenery:
      you made additional points while I was typing. Again, references, opinions, or withdrawn?

  22. canary says:

    Desis “Which verses of the Koran mention the things you say? Despite your baseless accusations, I am not Muslim, but Heathen.
    I have read the Koran, but in passing;…”

    disis? you said you read the Koran ..in passing ?? a)what? b)where c)when
    d)how ?? e)how much?
    So, my advice to answer your rhetoric, is that you read the Qu’ran, because maybe it will save your head and add to your religious self-searching in your present heathenism.

    Grammer lesson #1 for Desis. heathen is not capitalized.( No doubt your working to get it officially capitalized)

    Desis”….pointing out that hyper-orthodox Jewish law and many hyper-orthodox Christian laws are as unfair, murderous, and bloody, as hyper-orthodox Islamic law. At the same time it points out that charity/love without regard to culture is a part of Christian teaching.

    grammer lesson #2. leave the hypen “-”
    The Jewish religion is not based on unfair murderous and bloody, but is a loving religion that the muslims can’t stand. Hyperorthodox Christian laws were never based on unfair murderous and bloody laws, they are Christ’s laws.
    Later-day Saints have changed their laws so many times, and this is a good thing, yet many presist on believing they practice their old laws, and critize them for changing their laws, though I feel they are better written.
    Muslims changed their laws to be as I laid out for you. Take over the world, slay those that don’t. Hello? Terrorists are all over the world, and brag daily they will continue.
    As far as your being a heathen, doesn’t bother me a bit. I have no idea if you are a good heathen or an evil heathen. If you whorship Satan or don’t. Can you provide a link, that explains what heathen denomination you are in. I guess you should also fight the dictionary to change the definition of a heathen too while you are at it. I’d like to know if you are a hyperorthodox heathen, link to your beliefs please.

    • decius says:

      I read an English translation of the Koran, in order to gain a rough understanding of the contents and the context. I recall nothing in it mandating warfare or genocide.

      How many times in history have royalty resorted to murder because it was easier than divorce or annulment? The Catholic Church obviously found it acceptable. What of the Inquisition? Was that based on Christ’s laws? Was it fair, peaceful, and bloodless?

      Specifically, I fall into the category of Germanic Neopaganism, also known as Heathenism or Heathenry. The title, Heathen, is self-selected. It is correct to capitalize it, as it is a proper noun.

      Regarding my personal beliefs, there is no link to them, because I subscribe to my own. I will try to completely enumerate them herein, but will probably make at least one very basic omission.

      I have a code of ethics, in which harming others directly or indirectly is wrong, as are lying, failing to fulfill an oath or other freely accepted obligation, breaking hospitality, and withholding charity from one in greater need.

      Self-defense is encouraged. Vengeance upon one who has willfully wronged you is acceptable, provided that it is dealt in moderation, but forgiveness for accidental wrongs is obligatory upon proper atonement.

      I recognize that the basic Norse Pantheon is born of and a part of mythology, but find role models and behavioral guidelines within it. Most specifically, I recognize that Odin’s sacrifice of one of his eyes to drink from Mímir’s well (The well of knowledge), is both a cautionary tale regarding the cost of knowledge, and a modeling tale regarding the value and sacredness of knowledge. I contrast that with the Genesis story of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, which emphasizes the forbidden quality of knowledge as well as its cost, and does not mention the value of knowledge.

      I have yet to find the right way to describe the wyrd, but it exits. The wyrd includes the concepts of luck, fate, karma, and self-determinism. It is a metaphysical portion of each person, and is what makes some people ‘oysters’ and some ‘pearls’.

      Subject change: I understand that you are of the opinion that Muslims changed their laws to be as you claim them to be. I am not of that opinion. I hold my opinion because I have reviewed the text which the Muslims I have known personally have recommended and stated forms the basis for their own belief. I am also of the opinion that if any Muslim sect broke from their holy book so sharply, they should no longer be considered using the same word; As a parallel example, did the Mormon sect, when they actively practiced polygamy, make Christians polygamists?

  23. decius says:

    ho-beth:

    >Derius, you are a pompus windbag. You mistake wordiness for “valid points”. (Ever been taught to be concise and to the point, egghead?)

    ad-hom. False accusation-restate any of my points in fewer words.

    >You giving us “the lectern” is a prime example of your conceit. Its not YOUR lectern to give.

    I said “the lectern is available to you as well.” What did you read?

    >I had a brother-in-law who was a lot like you. So full of convoluted minutia and twisted facts. He actually believed he was “winning” his point. It was actually funny.
    the lectern is available to you as well.

    Wordy and irrelevant.

    >We all laughed at him and made fun of him. Not a first, but like you he just kept on and on, trying to engage people in his idiotic “theories”.

    Ad-hom, wordy, irrelevant.

    >My first clue to your big headed self love is your comment “my thesis”. Then your constant baiting us to prove you wrong. Then your “giving us the lectern”.

    False accusation:
    Thesis: a proposition stated or put forward for consideration, esp. one to be discussed and proved or to be maintained against objections.

    Provide a better word.

    >And the best, was when you tell us that “reasonable people” would understand your points.

    >Who are YOU dear one, to pronounce YOUR opinion as the only “reasonable” opinion? And who are you to speak for “reasonable people”?

    I did not in any place use the phrase you quoted. The only place I used the word “reasonable” was when sidetracking the discussion on censorship.

    >It’s ONLY your opinion, to which you are intitled.

    Concur.

    >But knowing the people on this blog as I do, I KNOW THEY are the ones that are reasonable. And that is MY opinion.

    Noted.

    >So where does that get us? You thinking that ONLY your opinion is reasonable and WE should change OUR opinion. Nope. Won’t happen.

    I was hoping to understand the bases of your opinions to better counter them in the world.

    >You seem to think you are at a University Debate. Are you unable to reconize and informal conservative blog site? You are at the wrong forum for a thesis. This is an informal blog site, in case you can reconize one.

    I recognize a Radial Xenophobic forum when I see one. The people here are by no means conservative.

    EDIT: I did not intend to include all members of the forum in this overgeneralization.

    >Which brings me to the point of my “answer” to you. You don’t want to exchange ideas and/or informal comments. You want to “razzle dazzle” us with your “immense brain” and “thesis”.

    I would have loved to exchange ideas. I hoped to find some. I was disappointed.

    >Well, you don’t. I, and I believe a few others, think you to be a pompus fool. You don’t impress anyone here.

    And nobody here impresses or makes an impression on me.

    >We know what we believe and we don’t have to “prove” anything to you. I know that is a shocker.

    >But….hey, one just can’t argue with a fool. You know what they say…The only fool bigger than a fool is the person who argues with a fool. So I won’t argue. And if you think we are fools, what does that make you, if you continue?

    Hopeful.

    >Soooo…..I am NOT going to engage in your long winded diatribes. They are full of misconceptions, and so empty of understanding, and so judgemental of anyone else’s point of view, it would be a waste of my time.

    show me a misconception, a statement made due to not understanding, and a judgemental statement made by me. Otherwise, false accusation.

    >As I said this is a conservative blog. Which means we have conservative views. And I hate to burst your little balloon, but your ‘immense brain” and “thesis” can’t change that and don’t impress. You and your pathetic arguments are not that bright.

    Your views are only conservative in your own little corner of your own little “world”. I approach without college writing skills, without formal debate methods, and without exceptional writing technique or skill and you perceive me as so overeducated that you refuse to respond. As I said, you are beyond reasoning with, I wanted to know the bases of your opinions.

    >Simply YOU are a pitiful pompus idiot.

    Ad-hom.

    An entire post amounting to nothing more than a personal attack. What did I do to you?

    • jobeth says:

      “An entire post amounting to nothing more than a personal attack. What did I do to you?”

      Bore me…

      That being said, now I can sit back and ignore you.

    • Rusty Shackleford says:

      All very interesting but fruitless.

      decius, I’m not sure I understand your motive(s). Although I think I can see most of your impartiality. Occasionally though you volleyed an attack or two by collectively addressing us all as not being conservatives but Xenophobes.

      Personally, my experience has been both grand and intolerable in other countries. I have been met with prejudice from almost all nations too. It’s not an American trait alone.

      Perhaps the goal might be to try to understand WHY the alleged xenophobia. Many people on this forum have similar international experiences as myself and perhaps their opinions are valid, if not fully justified.

      Religious prejudice, on the other hand, is both unnecessary and unflattering. For any and all who engage in it. I have been subjected to it face to face and it’s really not worth acknowledging. Turn the other cheek and all that sort of thing, what?

      I am a holder of a bachelor’s degree but not in any intellectual pursuit myself so I consider myself quite the pedestrian when it comes to intellectual matters. Although I DO consider myself fairly adept at recognizing crap when I hear it.

      I read it here sometimes….

      But far more I read it and hear it from the mainstream media. Something I hated long before it became fairly common amongst conservatives. “Freedom of the press only truly belongs to the person who owns one”.

      As far as your endeavor to strike up lively debate, you must first realize that these are passionate people. Many, like myself, are simply fed up with this puerile joke called “hope and change” as most of the people here have a unique dislike of being fed garbage an then being told it’s the truth.

      I answered your question. Or at least I think I did. And regardless of what you may believe, there are many independent thinkers here. However, many of them come to the same conclusions. Conservatives do tend to be like that. I have noted that most liberals tend to grab onto an idea that’s already out there. Although from a distance, the two are hard to distinguish, there is a difference.

    • decius says:

      Rusty: I did read your well-written reply above, and think I understand your position. In this reply, to a direct, personal, attack, I failed to recognize that I would be seen as address the entire readership, instead of the target of my comments. For that, I apologize to everyone who had not already made a claim to the effect that all Muslims were terrorists.

      I actually get very little of my information from the American mainstream media. I do use what gets filtered through the British media, and take it with a few grains of salt. I also check several American niche media channels, and about once a week I try to find one that disagrees with me, and learn more about why and how it does. I think that gives me a more well-rounded viewpoint.

      Again, the designation of “Radical Xenophobes” should have been directed at a subset of the posters here and not the forum in general, and I was negligent in that I don’t even know if it is a majority or just a vocal minority. I apologize to those people who I wrongfully attacked, and I apologize in general for being negligent in my communication.

  24. canary says:

    decuis, since your a Germanic Neo-whatever, then I don’t understand why you would critizise any religion, and you seem to dislike Jews and Christians the most. You put your faith in lucky charms, crystals, spells, whatever. Heathen is not a proper-noun, and not capitalized. You may capitalize it. You belong to the group, that worships charms and statues, but can’t stand to see a cross, the word Jesus, or God. And I’m guessing you are from UK too. Cause you people love the muslims. So, go to one of those meetings in UK and read the Qu’ran if you don’t want to google it. Jesus, Jesus, Yaweh, Yashuha, t t t t t. (crosses)
    Our Father who art in Heaven. We are a nation under God. Praise the Lord, Jehovah, t t t t t . The sun is rising, turn into a bat and fly away.

    • jobeth says:

      LOL ;-)

    • decius says:

      I respect your right to have an opinion, cemetery. However, you do not have the right to declare what my opinions and beliefs are. You belong to a group which idolizes human sacrifice, self-flagellation, which demonizes sex and sexuality, and which is intolerant of the existence of other sects which vary mostly in terms of degree of idolatry and demonizing of the same things. I have no problems with Jews, nor with Christians, nor with Muslims. I don’t get along well with intolerant illiterate bible-thumping THINGS like yourself, who have no religion to call their own. You bastardize the belief of others, and allow others to dictate to you what is true and what constitutes proof. God is not a proper noun, and need not be capitalized, but Muslim most certainly is, and you have consistently failed to capitalize it, even while “properly” capitalizing the words you, yourself, worship and idolize. Yet the map is not the territory, the words are not the gods, and there is no inherent meaning in the symbols.

      Your choice to depersonalize the people who you have declared to be your enemy, while refusing to explain to them WHY they are your enemy; Your choice to make personal attacks against anyone who tries to share thoughts and opinions with you; Your choice to turn your face from your neighbor, shun him, and murder him; Those are the reasons why YOU are hated. And it is you who are hated, not us. You are hated because you refuse to treat others like people.

      Your behavior in just the past 10 hours belies you; Not once have you responded to any kind of request for clarification. You have not explained why you hold any opinion, or from where you have pulled your facts. You have chosen, repeatedly, to misspell my pseudonym, in a deliberate effort to provoke me. Now you claim to be an expert on something which you did not know about, and still know nothing of.

      Jesus was sacrificed for your sins, not mine. My sins are mine and mine alone to bear, and when Munin whispers my deeds into the ear of Odin, he will be pleased. When Gabriell sounds his trumpet, and you are judged before your god according to your deeds, he will see your murderous, hateful heart, and you will be judged wanting. There can be no forgiveness for you, because you refuse to repent of your ways.

      I have what I came here to get. I understand you. You are contemptuous, and I hold you in contempt in turn. Were I to be physically present, I would shake the dust off of my shoes. I respect your right to be this way, and would fight to the death to protect it. I do not respect your right to live. I will not knowingly take any action to preserve your life.

      And so, my curse is thus: I have seen into your soul, and it is rotten. You may be able to hide that from everyone else, even from yourself. But whenever you become most complacent, whenever you are at peace with yourself, you will remember that you are evil incarnate. This shall follow you even past the end of your days, until you mend your intolerance and hatred, and look your neighbors in their eyes, and make peace with them.
      By the names of all the gods, may you lift your curse soon, open your own eyes, and be free.

      I wish you well in this cell of hell made by your own will. Merry part, and blessed bee.

  25. canary says:

    Oh, I missed that he is from Great Britian. I was going to ask if he hasn’t flown away yet, if he doesn’t want oOlbama in office and wants to see more muslims, but doesn’t mention wanting more wickens as himself, then I wanted to know names of who he thinks should be President, and names of muslims.

    • jobeth says:

      Like I said, he’s a pompus idiot. He tried to awe us with his “genus” and his “intellect”, but he failed to see he just made a fool of himself.

      True intellectuals don’t “wear” their intellect in an attempt to impress. He’s just a nut.

      He came here only to jerk our chains and try to feel “superior”.
      We’ve all had a chuckle so he failed.

      For him to act this pompus and try to talk down to so many, means he must have a severe case of inferiority. I have my questions of his “manhood”. LOL

      Never does any good to argue with a fool. And he is the poster child for fool.

      But you held your own Canary. You “done” good girl! ;-)

    • canary says:

      Well. I knew the ” t ” would expose Dicus’s very own plagerized and repara-phrased Koran for us. He has spewn from his fingers, more religous hatred, more brim and hellstones, deathwishes, judgement, curses, than any other religion to mankind; all in the name for “m”uslims. Maybe this is oOllabamo. In “Dream’s…” he claims his mother had a bookshelf with the Koran and every known religion on their bookshelf. And his church’s god cursed America over and over.
      (note) this oOllah’s statement on his religous books might be in Adaucity of Hope. I can’t remember, didn’t want the store to notice me reading them.

    • decius says:

      jobeth, I would certainly like to roast you just as well as I did canary, but you haven’t really given me much to go on. Excessive “use” of quotation marks, combined with atrocious spelling are only good for about a paragraph, the enumeration of personal attacks I guess I could make another one, but it would be pretty thin. Bringing up the various fallacies might make for a third, and the meta discussion gets us only four paragraphs. You’re not even notable enough for a personal finish, although I might get a couple of parting shots off.

      Did you really think I was trying to awe “you” by being a human? You may edit your response later, but the screenshot of you saying “genus” is going to be on failblog.org for all to see. You’ve shown that you care a little more by using spellcheck, but you really need to use that proofreader that keeps your ears apart.

      I suppose you “know” just what a true “intellectual” does and doesn’t do. After all, you flunked out of the best seminary school east of the Potomac. You paid you way through both semesters by learning how to “estimate” the size of other “people’s” manhood, I suppose. Every single substantive thing you have said “has” been completely abandoned simply because you don’t want to stand behind a single word you said.

      You certainly do know how to make random, baseless, meaningless personal comments. That is a skill you most definitely honed on a “middle school” playground. Calling someone a “liar”, and “then” claiming to know what they want and think is absolute, dare I say, “GENUS!” And you’re doing such a good job of sitting back and ignoring me as well.

      Hey, you didn’t give me much to work with. Are you at least less bored now?

      I see you edited in some actual quotes. Let me put them a little bit into context: 2.183-2.186 cover fasting regulations, 2.187-2.189 forbid theft, 2.190-2.194 define the limits of war:
      2.190:do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.
      2.191: do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it
      2.192: But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
      2.193: but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.
      2.194: The Sacred month for the sacred month and all sacred things are (under the law of) retaliation; whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you and be careful (of your duty) to Allah and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

      Compare with human sacrifice:

      Gen 22:2
      And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
      John 19:7
      The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die
      19:15
      But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

    • jobeth says:

      Yep. Canary…I totally agree with you about him.

      Funny, it’s like the guy who cheats on his wife. He seems to always accuse his wife of cheating when all along its him. Lefties and “heathens” are the same. The are so full of hate and pettiness, that they stay totally busy accusing others of all the hate and pettiness they themselves are quilty of.

      Speaking about Obalmy…With all that different religious material on his selves it’s no wonder Obalmy is so mixed up. She was just as mixed up as he is.

      You know, I am totally against abortion, but I wonder what this world would be like it Obalmy’s mother had partaken…(Just being little sarcastic there. I wouldn’t wish that even on him. LOL. )

    • decius says:

      Clearly you misunderstand the concept of curse. Also, you fail to understand: “plagerized” [sic], “hatred”, “brimstones”, “hellstones”, “deathwishes”, “judgement”, “mankind”, grammar, and the concept of inline citation.

      The curse is yours, and yours alone, not mine. I simply gave you the map which might allow you to escape it. If you ask someone who can read that map for their help in following it, you will be halfway there.

      Understand that I wish you no harm at all.

      Remember to love thy neighbor as thyself, and all that. How you respond to me reflects only on you.

      job-eth: Glad I could entertain you. You’ve certainly entertained me with your incoherent rambling and excessive “use” of quotation marks. Luckily Rusty was actually able to engage in a little bit of communication. Fun and personal growth all in one night! Have fun and be sure to tell your preacher that you didn’t have a single independent thought at all!

  26. canary says:

    detics: ” I would certainly like to roast you just as well as I did canary”

    he learned that from studying cannabilsm in Africa like Jeffrey Dahmer.

    detics: “.. although I might get a couple of parting shots off.

    he got from his muslim religion.

    detics: “Did you really think I was trying to awe “you” by being a human? ”

    no, your hatred shows what an animal you are with your religion of zoo ology and bowing to those weird lion statues with demon heads your religion worships.
    Take this! *.*.*.*.* that’s dust from a warted frog on ya.
    You have drove me to a point to really do what seems to tick you off the most. Take this! ” “” ” ” ” quotation’s on you “” dedius”‘ “”decisu”””baad speling on u”””
    “~zap~” you back.

    Dictus:”You are not worthy of existence, but I am not tasked with removing abominations.”

    Stop that muslim talk. and remove that upside down noose ? necklace from around your neck. Harry Potter is just fiction dude. Ten hours you say. So, how long do mushroom trips usually last.

    Seriously, brother. Jesus doesn’t judge anyone by the way they spell, or if they don’t know how to do spell-check on a computer. Jesus loves everyone in the world. He love’s muslims too, but he doesn’t love the Koran. And Jesus loves you too, whether you like it or not. Jesus loves you.

    The laughs were worth it, but I was serious about who you think should be President, and what muslim by name should work for him.

    • decius says:

      Love thy neighbor as thyself. Words you choose to live by.

      I am not aware of anyone who I trust to be President. I think the system we currently have in place is adequate to keep total fruitcakes out of office, with a few notable exceptions.

      I want the cabinet to be chosen by aptitude and knowledge, not by religion, political belief, or any other factor. I don’t have the resources to determine who the best candidates are, so I can’t judge them for myself.

      For SecDef, I would choose from among retired flag officers, same for the Military branch secretaries. SecState I would find by using a corporate headhunter to skim the best executives. For the rest, I would find the foremost expert in the field, and ask him for his recommendations. The ideal person in each case should be able to describe advantages, disadvantages, and alternatives to every course of action.

  27. canary says:

    Decius: “SecState I would find by using a corporate headhunter to skim the best executives.”

    Not sure if you mean “headhunter” literally, but why get rid of the best executives.
    Why not get rid of the worst executives.

    • decius says:

      Well, I mean “Corporate headhunter” in the only sense that anyone familiar at all with hiring for an executive position, or being hired for an executive position would think of. Sorry if I confused you.

  28. ultimatumthule says:

    decius: “I was actually discharged for saying “I believe that deploying strategic nuclear weapons would, due to their nature and accuracy, target civilians. I refuse to allow my action or inaction allow civilians to be targeted.” My official record, of which I have a copy, confirms this (Although my phrasing has improved in the last four years, the concept is the same.)”

    They were right to discharge you. You don’t belong in the military. You are not now, nor apparently were you ever, a warrior. Your pacifist position illustrates your lack of war strategy understanding and your ignorance regarding nuclear weapons and the critical role they play in our arsenal.

    Don’t confuse yourself or readers here at S&L that your stint in the military somehow equates to patriotism or strength of character. It does not.

    • canary says:

      Ultimatumthule/dusisie is a Brit from UK. It’s difficult through all his ramblings to catch it. He admits knowing very little about the U.S. only that we should rid of capitalism, and the administration should hire more muslims. I truly believe he is a muslim, because so much what he said is in line with the Qu’ran. He was discharged because as he claims he is a germanic neo paginist, heathen.

      It is possible that dusisi’s explanation of his volunteering for the British army, is how it works over there, that you can change your mind,
      but in the U.S. when you volunteer for the military to defend your country, you make a contract and swear underoath, to never desert.

      dususie:” and when Munin whispers my deeds into the ear of Odin, he will be pleased.”

      The Germanic neopaginism cult’s Odin practices racism, so why he claims to be otherwise. And the Munin is a denomic looking ravin. They have those lions with monkey heads and fangs.

      Odin was Alfodr, ‘father of the gods’; Valfodr, ‘father of the slain’; Veratyr, ‘lord of men’; Bileygr and Baleygr, ‘shifty-eyed’ and ‘flaming-eyed’; Glapsvidir, ‘swift in deceit’, Fjolsvidr, ‘wide in wisdom’; Farmatyr ‘god of cargoes’; Oski, ‘wish giver’; Sidfodr, ‘father of victories’; and many more ekenames, nicknames, given to Odin ‘for something he did’.

      Odin—sometimes Voden, Woden, Wotan, Wuotan. He inspired the frightful berserkers, maddened warriors who rushed naked into the midst of the fray. As Valfodr, he adopted as his sons all the casualties of battle: Valhalla, the hall of the slain, was filled with einherjar, the souls of champions gathered there by the Valkyries.

    • jobeth says:

      Canary,….Whew!! LOL You have your stuff down girl.

      I wanted to tell you I loved your last comment to the “heathen” I had a good chuckle over that.

      BTW, my husband is a Brit and said he must have been either dis-honorably discharged for his stupidity or he “bought” his way out, as they can do over there. With his attitutes I rather think it was the first.

    • decius says:

      So, ultimatum, what exactly are your military leadership qualifications? Did you order the slaughter of civilians at Mai Lai, or did you participate?

      The unclassified information I can tell you is that a Trident-2 missile has eight independently targeted 100 kiloton warheards. A 100 kiloton warhead will deliver a fatal radiation dose to everyone within roughly 150 square kilometers. Serious health effects and a large percentage of fatalities will result in a much longer area, particularly if they are unable to evacuate the area immediately. It is likely to hit within 500 yards of its designated target.

      The purpose of the SSBN, the only platform capable of launching the Trident-2, is to establish “assured second strike” capability. They were designed to be impossible to destroy quickly, and able to reply to a nuclear attack by a foreign country which destroyed all other strategic nuclear assets.

      There is no longer a country which has that level of nuclear stockpile.

      Are you aware of eight targets which are far enough away from civilian targets to be considered purely military? Bear in mind, You are hitting somewhere within a circle half a mile across, so hardened bunkers will likely not be destroyed. Most military bases are in cities, which are not acceptable targets. That leaves fleets and naval vessels. They can be considered to make their own exclusion zone, but no country outside of our immediate allies has so many fleets.

      In short, using strategic nuclear weapons is rather like burning down churches while a servicemember is attending service: You might hit a valid military target, but you are intentionally targeting a civilian venue in order to do so.

      So, now that I have expanded on those two sentences, care to share your qualifications to pass judgment on the positions of others?

      As for the illiterate carny, the oath is “I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.” That is set by federal law; desertion and solicitation to desert are defined in the UCMJ, which has authority over both enlisted and officers as well as some civilian contractors. I was never charged with, nor did I commit, ‘desertion’, the specific claim you made. I was discharged, at the termination of my enlistment, with the note “Not recommended for reenlistment”.

      The excerpt you copied from http://www.answers.com/topic/odin doesn’t seem to include any examples of racism. It is also factually inaccurate. Munin, “Memory”, appears simply as a raven. Since Munin has traveled incognito at times, I’m not sure where you got the “denomic” [sic] appearance. Have you ever seen Munin portrayed beneath a vinculum in a mathematical expression? I acknowledge that in a portrayal like that Munin might have the appearance of a denominator.

      Berserkrs didn’t “rush naked into the midst of the fray”, they wore the skins of bears which they themselves had killed. Did you honestly think that warfare has ever been done naked? What kind of pervert are you?!?

      The word “berzerker” stemmed from the old norse “berserkr,” meaning literally “bear-shirt” or “bear-clothing”. This described one who wears the skins of these animals, in order to show valor or bravery, especially if the skins were obtained by the wearer’s hunting and killing the original animal. Bears are important symbols of bravery and strength in the literature, and are mentioned repeatedly in many different legends of the time.
      -Davidson, H. R. Ellis. Myths and Symbols of Pagan Europe. Syracuse University Press, 1988. pp. 78-82.

      You’ve made the assertion several times regarding my nationality. You are wrong. Did you pull that from the fact that I trust the British media to be less biased than the American media? (They are, but only by an order of magnitude, although they are biased differently.)

      What would you make of the fact that I check Pravda (http://english.pravda.ru/, their top story right now explains why fascism is replacing freedom in the US), Al Jazeera, (http://english.aljazeera.net/, top story about an attack on Pakistan by the Taliban), and the Jerusalem Post, (http://www.jpost.com/, current top story regarding Netanyahu’s cabinet?

      Each of these sources is overall less used than BBC news (http://www.bbc.co.uk/), The Register (http://theregister.co.uk), and the various British citizens who provide international opinions, but not by much. CBS/NBC/FOX/ETC news in the US is worse than nothing; They have major biases and hide them. This site, with it’s editorial limits on what gets published, the commentary included with the content, and the corny name, I thought was a parody. I was fully expecting experienced, well rounded people would come forth and use sublime technique to prove outrageous points. I certainly didn’t expect that in less than a day I would have found only one person who thought, and that the major form of disagreement with me would be in the form of deliberate bad grammar and spelling. Now that you have some content to go on, you make some very interesting claims.

      Firstly, unlike you, I do not support human sacrifice for religious purposes. I don’t sacrifice animals for religion either, although I have slaughtered animals for food and hide. I don’t oppose animal sacrifice, but I do oppose the nonconsensual human sacrifice preached in the Old Testament. Consensual human sacrifice, such as that glorified in the New Testament, happens rarely enough to be a genuine grey area.

      EDIT: Jobeth: The UCMJ and requirements for discharges are law, and therefore publicly available. My narrative reason for separation is “Separated by reason of secretarial authority”, and my character of service is “General (Under Honorable Conditions).

      To earn a dishonorable discharge, you need to earn a prison sentence. Even then, it isn’t guaranteed. I know of a sailor who were forced to plea-bargain, got time in the brig, and at the end of that had to go back to their command. Apparently he would rather have been discharged, so you might see that as an additional penalty.

      Who is your British friend? What does he think of American media?

  29. Colonel1961 says:

    How in the heck did I miss out on this argument?

    decius: please stick around and play – would love to take a shot at you (metaphorically) in the future…

    p.s. Steve has (wisely)shut down the thread. Will try you another time…

    • decius says:

      Colonel1961: Go ahead and quote me from one of my early pieces, or take me up on any of the specific challenges I issued. “Legally enforced rating system for distribution of media” vs. “Censorship” is a good one.

      Or, if actual discourse isn’t your style, just jump on board with the carny’s random babbling and “divinely inspired” misspellings.

  30. canary says:

    Discius: “There is no longer a country which has that level of nuclear stockpile.”

    You are so wrong, And as far as 500 yards from hitting the target, The Trident II which your country Great Britian bought from our country was extremely accurate as well over a hundred launches were sucessful.
    Why do you quote an oath to join the U.S. military when you claimed your miilitary was voluntary, and your reasoning for having to leave British army for failure to do your duty. There was no war, no innocent civilians your superiors were asking you to hit. So, your stories get carried away. Also, the site you give for Odin, was not a site I have ever visited. So, I would guess it’s a very diverse occult which you belong.

    And decius, you have totally gotten off the issue, which is about the White House hiring muslims belonging to the SOS which are supporters of Obama bin Laden. Link was provided and parts of the Koran. And you still didn’t answer why you would get rid of the expert capitalists. Try to get Odie to help you focus. Did you do your daily sacrifice today? This might please him.

    • decius says:

      The original article never said anything about the applicants being members of anything but the Islamic religion. You never referred to any part of the Koran, although you will probably go back and edit your posts now and put in a few (additional) lies.

      There are no expert capitalists in the country. There a quite a few skilled journeyman-class capitalists, but the cycle removes them before they become powerful enough to be dangerous.

      Thanks for the fun carny. Sorry Col, the playground got closed because I pwned it too hard.

  31. Steve says:

    This conversation has wandered very far afield from the original article, and I am consequently closing it to further comments.


« Front Page | To Top
« | »