I’m not focused on your moniker, “professor”. Having spent many hours in debate/discussion with my own professors in my college career, I am not enamored, impressed, or distracted by someone who names himself “bronzeprofessor” on the internet. Whether you believe it or not, I can focus on your words instead of your name or race. You’re not talking to one of your students, here.

My mentioning of “professors and elitists” wasn’t directed at you at all. After all, you’ve repeatedly identified yourself as a Conservative (plus I am familiar with your orientation from when you were Latinos4JohnnyMac on the old site, Get Drunk And Vote 4 McCain.) So please don’t think I’m indirectly speaking to you when I mention professors in the context I did.

And as far as “sharing some strategies”, I didn’t know that I (or the fine contributors to this site) was in need of them. I, too, appreciate your experiences, but my post on this thread wasn’t one of “what do we do about this?” Your response was full of ways that we Conservatives need to conduct ourselves, and I’m thinking that you may have rushed to an answer that didn’t have a question. Some of us have learned about race relations in our everyday travels, and that is all I was trying to relay.

After all, since we’re the ones who forged a warm, tolerant, charitable place for Latinos to escape their origins to, isn’t it possible that after all of the examples of Conservative principles we’ve shown and politely discussed, it isn’t US that need to further explain ourselves, but THEM who need to listen?

And don’t worry about emploring us to ply your strategies of talking about common struggles and shared experiences to Latinos. We already have been, and that’s what I was trying to tell you. You can’t read statistics on Latino voting turnout from year to year and conclude that it is us who need to change. When we do that, we end up being played by people who are used to voting for he who promises the biggest goodies at election time. Most Latinos I know understand that.

I’m not teaching you a lesson, and no, I don’t think conservatives need to hear that lesson more than anyone else. I’m just reflecting on the issues you raised and sharing some strategies, take it or leave it. I apologize if it comes across as condescending, but there were some real historical events that made me feel like posting a small paragraph at the end of my first post in this thread. The fact remains that in 2008, Obama won a national election and now I am bound to serve him as Commander in Chief, because of several swing groups that did not react well to a conservative message. One swing group was Latinos, who went from voting 44% for Bush to voting 31% for McCain. If a different strategy might in the future help me avoid having to serve under a CIC with whom I disagree, then I would be happy to promote such a strategy.

The original article was from the NY Times, and if you read what I first wrote, I said it’s important that conservatives react to liberal spin and that’s where this whole discussion came from. You have a lifetime of experience and I like hearing about it. I also come from a lifetime of experience, which includes working in factories and signing up for the military and struggling and being born again as a Christian and all that fun stuff. I’ve worked with hammers too! And I’ve packed boxes and moved stuff, and soon I’ll be in boot camp, if it makes my statements any more authoritative.

Included in my experience are observations of the way political discussion unfolds. Liberals often distort what conservatives say. As you point out, conservatives are often less racist than liberals, but liberals are shrewd at twisting everything around. I wish Latinos weren’t susceptible to liberal distortions, but many of them are.

Just so you know, I often challenge liberals on the way they discuss race, and I am much harsher toward them because I disagree with their actual philosophy about race (I don’t disagree with conservatives.) I often complain about liberals when I post on this site. But liberals don’t read this site, so when I post on here, I am usually not giving them “lessons.”

I hope that clears up any misunderstanding. To be honest, I really don’t care enough about race to feel all that strongly about these issues. BUt if I were to go back and erase my original posts, then a lot of this discussion thread wouldn’t make sense. So take my current stance as a white flag — I surrender. :)

I understand your desire for a “courtship” between Conservatives and Latinos. I caught that when you originally said that the initial Jane-Austen-like resistance has to be melted with gentle nudges. I just don’t go for the reasoning that the target which needs to learn that lesson is Conservatives. (of course there are exceptions to every rule, but I’m speaking generally, here.)

I mean, if you’ve lived a life like I have, you’ve encountered average Conservatives meet, mix, and love people from other ethnicities/cultures all of your life. When I was in S Korea I served with uneducated, inarticulate, simple men who were definitely Conservative in their value system/worldview who ended up meeting, dating, then marrying S Korean women who came from POLAR OPPOSITE origins than them.

I saw average Conservatives volunteer for hardship military tours just so their foreign wives could be closer to their kin for another year. I saw average Conservative men give up their day’s rations for the native children who ran up to them in foreign villages. I saw average Conservative men risk their lives for the Mexican with them.

These aspects of average, rural, redneck people who call themselves Conservative aren’t surprising to my kind of people. When you go to churches that are nothing more than clapboard shanties in the mountains, you see the kindness towards blacks, Latinos, and others pour forth in very humbling ways. The mountain folk who have never been outside their state eagerly reach into their pockets to give to those who don’t look like them at all.

I just don’t know why you think we need to be taught your lesson of “courtship” more than any other group. I mean, it’s a nice thought, but in my life, I’ve seen that the most alarming prejudice and lack of understanding comes from the pompous, self-assured elite (the Left) concerning those of us they consider “in need of education.”

Too bad the Mayors glee doesn’t extend to the 9.5% national average of American citizens unemployed.

Rush Limbaugh was right, just reach people as people, not as groups, and your values will prevail. Look at the stupid, lazy, veteran-hating Latinos as “liberals” and look at the patriotic Latinos as “people like us — good folks.”

With that, I am all Latino’d out. TIme for bed. Good night to all — happy 4th.

After reading a majority of these posts on the culture of the Hispanic community i.e. their strong sense of patriotism, tight family communities, hard work ethic etc. it’s difficult for me say this isn’t totally true. Where I live the Hispanic community is evenly divided. One half epouses all the conservative values that have made this country great. The other half has been brainwashed into the liberal mindset of hating America, calling people in the military stupid, and raising another generation on welfare with no ambition of ever leaving it. In essence the local Hispanic community is polarized between two political lines of thought.

I still look at the relationship between Latinos and conservatives as a courtship. Latinos identify as “conservative” at about the same rate as the general population. But only about 30% of Latinos are Republican. So in a sense, conservatives and Latinos would be wedded much more strongly, if their shared values were clearer. The challenge, however, is that conservatives are inherently against identity politics, so they do not like the idea of approaching Latinos as a group [Rush said very eloquently at CPAC that conservatives do not naturally speak to people as groups, but as people.] I think conservatives should be authentic, and stick to their values, and eventually the ice will melt with Latinos and the old stereotype of RIght=racist will melt away.

I say, think of it as a courtship. When a man and a women who would make a great match are first getting to know each other, just a little bit of heightened consideration goes a long way into making each other comfortable. On the first or second date you won’t joke about a woman’s weight, or tell her hairspray smells too strong. Once you’re comfortable you go deeper.

Same thing as conservative whites and Latinos get to know each other better. Talk about religion, the military, taxes, our mutual struggles. Don’t feel that you need to bring up immigration when you’re talking to a Latino, just because he’s Latino; if the topic comes up, don’t feel like you have to avoid it just because he’s Latino. But focus the bulk of the conversation on shared interests and keep discussion of immigration to a minimum, since it’s a sore issue for lots of Hispanics, like talking about dieting with a woman on the first date.

Right on, PR. We all are waiting patiently for not only those unconvinced Latinos to see the Conservative in their mirrors, but all of the union men and women who vote Dem every cycle, as well.

If I’ve read your musings accurately, PR, I believe that you are a lawyer. I can understand your feelings about illegal immigration, if that is so. I’m not sure how many adult years you may have spent doing something other than law, and I certainly don’t want to assume where your heart is concerning such…but I come to the issue of illegal immigration as a man who has had to swing a hammer for a living a few times in my life, along with washing dishes, painting cars, and such.

Perhaps I am sensitive to the issue because I realize that the wages for those jobs (which I still occasionally find myself needing, despite 2 college degrees) don’t keep up with the cost of living, come with no benefits, and are unfairly depressed yearly because of the loose immigration policies of this country I went to war for almost 20 years ago.

Let’s just say that it is sadly ironic that returning vets aren’t greeted with better jobs and security in America, where an illegal and his family can be treated to better health care, better wages than what he knew in his home country, and less stress and worry over paying the bills that comes from playing by the rules (paying car insurance, a lifetime of taxes/medicare/medicaid/ss/health insurance/etc).

So many of the bills that must be paid by an honest American who makes 10 dollars an hour siding houses with no benefits are forgiven for the illegal who also makes 10 dollars an hour siding houses.

Again, I’m not saying that you aren’t sensitive to this reality, PR. I’m just expressing why I feel the way I do about illegal immigration, as long as we’re bearing our souls about this issue. When you’ve spent a lifetime groping for that better pay, while still remaining an honest man who doesn’t drive without car insurance, or start a family without the means to pay for it, or abuse the emergency room system for health care, you begin to understand the Civil War a little better.

The plantation owners who used slave labor operated from a system that they inherited, to be sure. We all focus on only one aspect of it: the racist angle. What is forgotten is the other evil of it: the depressed wages and lack of jobs for the rest of us who need those jobs. Indeed, the biggest arguments of the 19th century in American Congress were over whether the new territories/states would be slaveholding states or not. Labor was the crux of it, not the racist aspect of it, mostly. The war between the states went a long way to fixing it, then. Sometimes I wonder if that’s the only way we’ll fix it now.

And through it all, you don’t hear ONE time me say that it is a Mexican/S American problem, and focus this on them. Neither do any of the redneck, tobacco-spittin’ blue collar workers I grew up with and encounter now. This unfair fear that we Conservatives all have a racist tendency towards illegals and that we need to be extra careful isn’t born from any reality I’ve encountered, and it is going to be the death of us.

What instead needs to be articulated is to name names when you encounter some racist behavior, and quit taking the isolated incident out on the whole class. I dare say that when you hear the language of bigotry towards Latinos, 9 times out of 10 it is an uneducated dolt who never shows up on this forum or even understands what Conservatism means.

But, unfortunately, the myth that Southerners are all racist Archie Bunkers is still practiced by professors and other elitists on both coasts and in between. I’m tired of it, and I’ve seen 40 years of our coffin being nailed shut because of it. We have nothing to apologize for, and we need to stand up for ourselves before our epitaph is written.

It should be our motto from now until Obama is out of office. We can not stop. We can not rest. We can not get distracted. We can not afford to lose.

This is America – the greatest Nation in the World. We The People can do Anything.

And now is a Time that tries Men souls. Do not let your Fathers and Grandfathers down – it is time to Stand Up and Fight for Liberty and Justice for All.

They make take my life – but they can never take my FREEDOM. And I will not willingly give it away.

Chin up…

His “stimulus” plan was nothing but seed money to pay off the greedy little politicos he needs to get his new form of government placed. It’s working just as planned.

Just listen to Pelosi or Biden or Boxer or Reid or (fill in the blank) speak. They are as clueless as they are worthless, but perfect for doing nothing while our country is dismantled. Now they’ve stolen Minnesota and implanted another certified moron to give them a super majority in the senate.

The only piece missing is the Supreme Court. If I were a conservative justice, I’d double my security, never be alone, have my car secured/serviced by family, get a food taster, and refuse to fly anywhere until if/when we can get Obama out of office.

You said it Professor.

Libwits are working hard to turn Latinos into a dependent class, just like they did with African Americans.

You know, we all are angry about illegal immigration…..but the reason you don’t hear me railing about it as much as other things is because the vast majority come here and work their asses off. Maybe they get some free benefits, but they sure are working hard when I see them.

Hispanics and conservatives share a lot of values. I hope they realize what a con man the Moron is.

Take it from a Latino Republican, folks: Time is on the side of conservatives! Most Latinos are deeply religious, hard working, and pro-military. It’s true — we’re “macho” in the sense that we admire strength, traditional families, and self-reliance. We hate sissies, laziness, and people who talk out of both sides of their mouth.

We also don’t care as much about school as other ethnic groups — but that’s a good thing. Fewer of us are being indoctrinated in the gauntlet of elite liberal colleges.

And most importantly, we are much more than the immigration issue. For 2006 and 2008, the Democrats’ scare tactics worked and they convinced the brown voters taht the Republicans were out to get us and we would be backing racists if we voted conservative. But like all scare tactics, that canard has a short shelf life. Eventually more substantive issues surface, and Hispanics will get irritated with the pointless condescending identity politics (Sotomayor), the bad economy (how ‘ bout those utility bills?), the cuts to defense (great — fewer slots open for those millions of gung-ho Latinos who want to be Marines), and the abortions (ever talked to a Latino Catholic or evangelical about abortion?)

My one plea to conservatives is, just be patient, stay your ground! Howard is right; many Latinos who are voters do not like unfettered illegal immigration since our neighborhoods bear the brunt of the illegal saturation. One week ago, there was a stabbing across the street from my apartment — a black gang and a Hispanic gang. Illegal immigration makes the gang violence worse, and eventually latinos will reward Republicans for speaking for those of us who follow the law, want to serve our country, and expect decency in our neighborhoods.

The most important thing is simply to strive always to articulate the anti-illegal-immigration position in a clear way that the Democrats cannot caricature as racist. It’s sad we have to be so self-conscious, but a dose of self-consciousness and careful choice of words will pay off in 2010 and 2012. I have high hopes.