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Potential Debt Limit Plan C Emerges (Taxes)

From Fox News:

Potential Debt Limit ‘Plan C’ Emerges, Democrats Say

By Ed Henry
Published July 28, 2011 | FoxNews.com

Democratic officials are cautiously optimistic that the outlines of a potential compromise – a “Plan C” – are emerging that could bridge the differences between plans pushed by House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev…

Senate Budget Chairman Kent Conrad, D-N.D., hinted at such a compromise earlier Thursday during an interview on Fox News.

“Let me just say behind the scenes there are discussions underway to find a way forward,” said Conrad. “To how would you harmonize what Leader Reid has come up with and Speaker Boehner has come up with and I’m increasingly of the view that we can do that. That’s good news.”

The focus of this round of talks is on what kind of "trigger" mechanism the debt ceiling legislation will have to guarantee that a new special committee of Congress actually follows up with real spending cuts later this year. And whether or not positive action by the committee will allow the president to get more leeway on another lift in the debt ceiling so there’s no repeat of the current debate early next year.

As Mr. Obama might say, make no mistake – this is all about taxes. Obama and the Democrats are going to make sure that any new ‘trigger’ will include a way to have a "balanced approach" of (fake) spending cuts and real taxes.

These Democratic officials see three steps to a compromise and they stress that the White House believes the first two steps are not necessarily that difficult, while the third one — the trigger mechanism — will be the flashpoint.

Part One of the emerging compromise involves the spending cuts in the Boehner and Reid plans, which the Democratic officials note have some overlap and can be bridged relatively easy.

Part Two involves the fact that both Boehner and Reid want to set up a special committee of Congress to come back with a second round of spending cuts — and possible tax changes — in a few months. While there are differences to their committees, this is another area where the Democratic officials see a lot of overlap.

Part Three is the sticking point, and that is what "trigger" mechanisms are in place to incentivize action by this special committee to make sure it is not just yet another Washington commission that ends up doing nothing.

For example, Democrats want to make sure that if Republicans walk from those talks, there might be some tax increases that would kick in automatically — giving the GOP incentive to stay and work out a deal…

There it is. This is what every Democrat plan is always ultimately about. Raising taxes, so they can continue to buy votes. They are about as complicated as a single cell amoeba.

According to these Democratic officials, the White House believes Senate Republicans who were not named are starting to warm to a compromise behind the scenes…

Was there ever any doubt?

This article was posted by Steve on Friday, July 29th, 2011. Comments are currently closed.

24 Responses to “Potential Debt Limit Plan C Emerges (Taxes)”

  1. proreason says:

    Something good always seems to emerge from chaos, doesn’t it?

    • River0 says:

      ‘Bi-partisanship’ up till now always seems to translate as GOP betrayal and surrender to Democrats. We need another revolution. from the inside out, and it can’t be fought with bullets. It will have to be an internal Reformation of first principles. Thank God for the Tea Parties, or we wouldn’t even be discussing this issue.

  2. Rusty Shackleford says:

    Again, picking a turd up by the clean end.

    Where’s my remote? I want to change channels away from this one-string banjo band.

  3. Reality Bytes says:

    How spending 1T in 5 months with a promise to cut the same in 10 years is freakin’ lunacy.


    It’s like trying to bailing out the Titanic with a dribble cup.

    Speaking of the Titanic. What’s the difference between the United States Economy & The Titanic?

    The Titanic had a band.

    Try and have a good weekend. Don’t forget to pray for our country.

    • Right of the People says:

      Q: What’s the difference between the boy scouts and the government?

      A: The boy scouts have adult leadership.

  4. JohnMG says:

    …..”Democratic officials are cautiously optimistic that the outlines of a potential compromise – a “Plan C” …..”

    Democrats should stick with Plan “B”, aka the “morning-after pill”. Either way of looking at it, whatever emerges from this bi-partisan effort will still be an abortion.

  5. Reality Bytes says:

    I had a hedgefund mgr tell me in Aug 08, “you’re going to need three things, gold, guns & ammo.”

    That’s where Congress & Obama is steering this nation. Forget a soft landing. Anarchy is around the corner.

    “I’m the only thing between you & the pitchforks.”

    Remember who said that? Barrack Obama.

    Wake up America. Your enemy is not The Tea Party. You’re killing the messenger not the ones who would enslave you.

  6. Reality Bytes says:

    HOSTAGE?! Democrats are holding hundreds of millions of Americans hostage for generations to come!

  7. Reality Bytes says:

    It’s the Amy Winehouse Economy!

    Raising the debt ceiling in order to get the economy back on track is like giving Amy Winehouse more heroin to make her better.

    What’s that? She died? An overdose you say?

    Telling don’t you think?

    • proreason says:

      RB, the debt ceiling won’t be raised to save the economy. It will be raised to save the marxists’ and their Republican allies’ sinecures (for most) and to destroy the country (for Obamy and a few others).

  8. tranquil.night says:

    Erickson: http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/07/29/the-worst-negotiators/

    I think the House Republicans are the worst negotiators, but doggoneit — imagine if John Boehner had been half as aggressive with the Democrats as he has been these past 24 hours with House conservatives.

    Oh, and I still don’t think anyone can answer this question: if the House GOP only controls one half of one branch of the federal government and has no power, why the hell do they keep throwing plans against the wall hoping something will stick? Do they have Stockholm Syndrome?

    A balanced budget amendment is worth fighting for. A balanced budget amendment is worth holding the line for. But it is not worth being fooled into voting for a plan by it including a BBA on a subsequent debt ceiling vote knowing with 100% certainty that not only will Harry Reid strip it out in the Senate, but that your own leadership will sell you out on when it comes back to you. Your symbolic vote — and it is a symbolic vote — will be used to play you as a fool.

    All John Boehner is interested in is John Boehner.

    And all John Boehner is interested in is pretending to sound like an opposition political leader representing his party’s ideas, when in fact joining his opponents who are really his friends in isolating the people who really want to change the status quo.

    That’s fine. If the most substantive outcome of this battle is that our Establishment leadership is exposed as not serious enough, not capable enough, and most of all lacking the integrity, to represent the interests of the people who elevated him to his leadership position (not the Corporate cronies who didn’t do s*** for the Constitution and rule of law in 2010 except continue look for ways to exploit it in their own self-interest), then that is a victory too.

    The rest of this 112th Congress isn’t going to be a cakewalk in which Congress sits on their ass while the Tea Party gets swept up into election circus theater. It’s been one big distraction after another this year. Birth Certificates, Weiner Roasts, throwing granny over the cliff.

    We can’t let the MBM control the national narrative anymore, because all they’re focused on from here until 2012 is dividing us. By any means necessary.

    Be on guard guys, don’t dismay!! We will press on. Now I have to go sleep, lol. But now we know there’s plenty of Republicans whose apple-carts are getting upset in this process too, and they wouldn’t mind silencing us either if they aren’t able to co-opt us like they used to.

    • proreason says:

      Bad negotiating skills is the least of the problems.

      The Repubicans’ stategies have been so bad that they are certainly intentionally designed to continue the era of big-government with themselves sucking third teat…which, when trillions is at stake, is pretty damn good for the sucker.

      Monumental blunder 1: passing Paul Ryan’s budget. All by itself, this probably allowed the Moron to win in 2012. It’s by far the stupidest political move up to that point in time.

      But wait…..it has gotten much much worse

      Monumental blunder 2: choosing to make a big deal out of the debt ceiling. Fighting when you can’t win, and don’t have to fight is just plain stupid. Republicans could have passed CCB and then sat back, having fulfilled their duty. After awhile, some safe seats could have agreed to a $1T debt ceiling lift. There was and is no way that a Balanced Budget amendment or major budget cuts will happen until 2012. They should have passed their show bill and backed off.

      The Mother of all Monumental Blunders 3: What % of the country knows that Obamy has added more debt than all his predecessors combined? This should be the first and only thing every Repubican says, every time they are at a microphone. Not to hammer it home over and over and over again is simply unforgiveable. There are so many ways it could have been illustrated for everyday people to understand that there isn’t time to list them.

      Monumental Blunder 4: Participating in the Obama-created chaos about the debt ceiling.

      No amount of stupidity can explain these kinds of errors. Bonehead and Mitchell and their co-conspirators are as guilty as Reid and Schumer. Four peas in a pod.

    • tranquil.night says:

      Heh, we were discussing it at a recent TP meeting, how we weren’t surprised that the Republican Establishment launched its coordinated broadside against us. Someone made the salient point that it all gets back to Adam Smith. People will do what they think is in their self-interest, and without a very solid compass pointing towards what’s right – a belief in the supreme rule of law, they’ll sell their values and independence to those who would give them what they desire. Apply that principle to the relationship between Special Interests and Washington and you have your basic map of the “Business as Usual” crowd that has no interest whatsoever in seeing a true Conservative Ascendancy.

      On the Republican side, they’ve had this walking-the-tightrope strategy in play since day 1 of the 112th Congress, to make it look like they were representing what the Tea Party wanted done while in fact making sure that every serious effort we put forward took the worst political beating they could possibly set up for the Left.

      I think this full-fledged assault on the Tea Party from the Republican Establishment, now in the midst of this fight, is proof positive because not once have you seen or will you ever see them make such nasty and uncivil remarks about their Democrat friends, who nevertheless will call them and us every name in the book. Not once did the Republican Leadership address our substantive points on the need to change their political strategy to one that’s more aggressive towards Obama and the Democrat’s disinterest to Democracy. Our criticism of the Leadership has never been a matter of not achieving solid enough legislative results, but that they won’t address the false-premises set against them. They won’t call out the lies, they ignore us and play very weak defense. Then they come out so virulently against their own caucus, and you’re left wondering “Whoa! Where was this against the people collapsing this country?”

      I was apprehensive of them all at the start of the Congress like everyone else, when they took every chance to make sure no Conservatives got powerful positions. After FY2011, my suspicion grew even more because of how the Leadership evaded the fight, said from the beginning that we had no leverage because we didn’t want a government shutdown, and then weaseled away until the very last minute before the deadline to cut a deal which they then lied to us about and oversold GROSSLY.

      You’re right – then came the Ryan Plan, which they released right at the end of FY2011 to convince us not to take that one to mat – they were going to the mat for the Ryan Budget. Then they let it get torched by the media and did nothing to prevent it from going down in the Senate. It was left to the Tea Party to even attempt to combat the gross lies told about the plan. The Establishment told us they’d go to the mat for the Debt Ceiling – that’s where we had the real leverage. Bait and switch after bait and switch. But we recorded it, it’s demonstrable now, so things will be changing.

      After that, the Establishment built a narrative. The Ryan Plan has lost us that stable Republican NY seat when it was a Democrat plant acting as a Tea Party candidate. This being right after the Tea Party had reelected Judge Prosser in Wisconsin, after the Union threw everything at that election to buy it. Oh but that NY race, that killed it. That was the sign the Republicans had been waiting for that Conservatism can’t win politically anymore so they can’t go full-blown for it legislatively. They got Trump, our brief hero for getting the release of the Birth Certificate out, to parrot the narrative as much as possible.

      Do you see how this works? Do you see that they all are in on it? That it IS a very coordinate strategy from all wings of the Ruling Class to make sure we never acquire real power and restore government to all people, not just the people who pay-to-play?

      It’s all a big ruse. A big theater. All of these ideological conflicts are mostly for pretend, to pit people against one another, split them into groups, which can be managed by the political class to their benefit. No interest in Union, they’re here to divide. Without a clear rule of law restricting their ambitions, they are the law, and they use to pursue their ambitions.

      So here we are. It was the same pattern of political behavior, and you’re right, the issue isn’t that the Leadership can’t negotiate aggressively. They’ve proven it now in how they so directly have come after us. They know how to coordinate a message assault to bring political pressure to bare. They know how to manipulate. You can see it by how their whole Establishment apparatus lit up in tandem with attacks on the Tea Party.

      They are not Constitutionalists. The philosophy behind Americanism doesn’t matter to these people. These henchmen have no interest in seeing the Conservative Ascendancy continue to the Presidency and Senate Majority, because they know it means an end to their kickback racket too. I wouldn’t be surprised if they voted for a second term of Obama if a non-moderate crony didn’t get our nomination, even knowing that Obama’s second term would destroy the rest of the country. The Truth has no play in politics, it’s all about the power of who throws the money in the campaign chest. The Flag isn’t anything to them but a symbol off which they can leach for their own gain.

      To us the Flag is Courage embodied in the red, passion for Justice in the blue, and Purity of spirit, thought, and action in the white. Yes, Purity. It’s not a vice, it does not connote an unwillingness to compromise in politics like the politicians try and define it. Those literally are the virtues that the colors of our flag represent. Yet, when a people rise up against Washington demonstrating those same characteristics in support of a return to them in our government, and they’re genuinely serious about it, well you can see now how much they can’t let it happen. It’s antithesis to the whole cushy setup they’ve had going there for decades.

      Perhaps we’ve been a little naive because Politics isn’t our business, but we’re dynamic learners, and these snakes have grown arrogant and sloppy over the years because of how they’ve been able to get away with it.

    • tranquil.night says:

      At the start of this fight, I thought it was Fear of blame for the default that was keeping the Establishment from wanting to pursue our objectives more aggressively.

      Now I wonder if what they really fear is the Tea Party’s ultimate success. I wonder if that’s what the whole establishment fears, because it’s making them less relevant too, on top of endangering that “business as usual” lobbying environment.

    • proreason says:

      Rush thinks we’ve been punked. His reasons are different than mine, but our conclusions are the same.

      Bread and circus for the masses, or rather, for the few who care enough to pay attention.

    • proreason says:

      Ace is one of my favorites. He usually has some good insights, and he isn’t predictably Tea Party or rino. He seems to have his own mind. He’s a better read than the Townhall guys by a long shot.

      Here he presents an interesting spin that aligns pretty well with tn’s position. Essentially, he says there is evidence that the Moron isn’t doing well at all in this “debate” and that if Republicans just hang on to the conservative position, there is a good chance that the marxist, who after all wants desperately to be reelected, may decide to abandon his progressive mates, who he cares for about as much as granma.


    • tranquil.night says:

      We went through this dance with Obama too: Incompetent or purposeful? Well, with Obama that’s all but laughable now.

      With the Establishment leadership, let’s stop being naive and save ourselves the bewilderment when they screw us over again: it’s purposeful. They aren’t afraid of Obama or his media as much as they’re afraid of ethical Conservatives overtaking the Republican party and their power apparatus.

      None of these phonies have the genuine belief structure that they act out on stage. Maybe once upon a time but money is what talks for them now. So their voice isn’t their own. The power to tax and spend is the power to rule without personal accountability; they are just gears obligated to carry out the functions of the broader Ruling Class machine rather than listen to the screams of the people on the ground getting mowed down by it.

      If we stay ahead of it and stay active, we can continue to change the paradigm. Just gotta understand what we’re looking at, resist it’s attempts to overrun us, and work our damnedest to pull the wool off the eyes of as many people as we can manage before it’s too late.

    • tranquil.night says:

      “Essentially, he says there is evidence that the Moron isn’t doing well at all in this ‘debate’ and that if Republicans just hang on to the conservative position, there is a good chance that the marxist, who after all wants desperately to be reelected, may decide to abandon his progressive mates, who he cares for about as much as granma.”

      Ace has been outstanding this entire time.

      I agree wholeheartedly. The biggest obstacle has always been Harry Reid and the Senate, since if a Republican bill actually made it through both houses and Bam vetoed his own request for a debt ceiling increase, thus releasing the panic he’d created – I mean it’s not even politically viable, he’d sign the bill.

      Obama and Reid don’t want a Republican bill to reach him. It’s not about the substance of the bill, it just can’t be a Republican bill because that would be a win for Republicans – which put the test to lie that Reid and Obama control what gets done in Washington because they’re in control of 2/3 of the State. And if it was a Tea Party bill exclusively? Oh man. That’s totally unacceptable.

      All politics, all the time. It’s the only prism in which their mind lives. If our Leadership had just listened to us and put the onus on Reid to consider dealing with CCB, which was a compromise in the House (with 66% public support), instead of fighting against ourselves for one week just to pass CCB lite which Reid is also either going to table or amend to his bill without debate and send right back at us, then the Democrats as a whole would be taking a brutal beating in polling.

      But “compromise” was the touch word for the day. And when Democrats mean compromise, they mean the only compromise is their compromise, exactly as Dingy Harry said. I’m going to reiterate again. The Establishment aren’t fools, all this wheeling-and-dealing behind the scenes hasn’t been about how to bring two negotiating parties together for a deal. Their only goal was “how can we come up with a deal that fools the Tea Party?”

      Did you notice how hard leadership worked to get solid Conservatives to sign onto Boehner’s plan before it was even released to the public, so that they could use the Cult of Personality aspect to try and quell the anger without having to actually reveal the plan? Politics really is despicable.

      CCB needed 3 Democrat Senate votes. We can’t persuade 3 Democrats to consider our very popular ideas but we have 12 Republican Senators willing to consider Reid’s bill? Harry Reid – who along with Shmucky have called Republicans and their governing ideas every vile ad hominem they can think of? Yeah, it’s all becoming very clear now who stands where and why.

  9. BigOil says:

    Sure…why not cobble together the worst of all the crappy plans that have been floated throughout this ginned up crisis for a final cram down. This whole sordid process feels eerily similar to the Obamacare enema – but at least they are doing something. Sigh.

  10. Papa Louie says:

    Obama and the Democrats already promised not to raise taxes for two years when they agreed to extend the Bush tax cuts back in December. They also promised to “pay as you go” to reduce the deficit. If they had kept this promise, there would be not need to raise the debt ceiling because they would have been making cuts to offset any new spending.

    But Democrats don’t want to keep their promises and they want Republicans to let them off the hook by “compromising” with them. You can bet that if Republicans do compromise with them, the Democrats (and their MSM cheerleaders) will blame Republicans for the continued deficit spending and for any tax increases that occur as a result of the “compromise”. They did the same thing to “read my lips” Bush when he buckled under the pressure to compromise on a “balanced” approach.

  11. BillK says:

    The Republicans will cave; they always do.

    • proreason says:

      Almost certainly so.

      But I wouldn’t aay “cave”. I’d say “pretend to cave”, since they are a part of the same team (excluding many of the Tea Partiers, including some who have been deceived because of their eagerness to actually find a solution, naively believing as they do that such a thing is possible with Reaper Reid and the Moron standing in the doorway.)

  12. tranquil.night says:

    Support RSC Chariman Rep. Jim Jordan – he’s put his neck on the line this whole time and the leadership is pissed the hell off at him like no other. He put together CCB, he’s spoken out against Boehner’s gimmickry, and he’s been tirelessly hitting the media rounds to make his case. He is the Majority Leader we need.

    “RUSH: Jim Jordan, a Tea Party Republican, who is resisting all pressure to cave, and speaking publicly about it. Well, as happens in politics, this is common, folks. This is not something unique to Mr. Jordan. The Republican leadership is telling him that if he doesn’t get in line, they’ll write his district out of existence. Not even try find somebody to run against him in the primary, they’ll just gerrymander his district out of existence. That’s what they’re telling him. Now, here’s what I think is different. You can tell by the nature here of Ellie’s call, what will happen if the Republican leadership does this to Jim Jordan, the Tea Party will find somebody to run against some of these Republicans in their so-called safe districts and they’ll be primaried.”

    You can count on it.

  13. AmericanIPA says:

    These spineless Repubics are about to give us “read my lips” part II. They may as well be Obama campaign contributors.

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