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The Hive – Please Talk Among Yourselves

Here, once again, is our weekend discussion thread.

Please feel free to post your thoughts on the issues of the day in the comments below. But remember to post any specific news items in the ‘News Selected By Our Correspondents’ section in the sidebar.

This article was posted by Steve on Saturday, August 13th, 2011. Comments are currently closed.

26 Responses to “The Hive – Please Talk Among Yourselves”

  1. proreason says:

    Perry may have met his Waterloo the day he started his campaign.


    A lot of us, including myself, will get all wet listening to this, but we’re maybe 20% of the public.

    I think his bold statements on Social Security, Medicare and Federalism will sink him like a rock. If you don’t hear much about this interview in the next few months, then the make believe media has decided to bury it with the hope that he gets the nomination. THEN you will hear it more often than “obamy’s a genius”.

    If Rick can overcome these statements, he is the most brilliant risk-taker in history.

    • tranquil.night says:

      Bold. I read it at Ace’s HQ and was immediately flipped from the “Perry seems hyped” camp to “he’s a contendor.”

      I like how he frames it. The biggest criticism is that he doesn’t offer specifics, but why offer specifics when the Democrats are just asking for them so they can demonize them? Instead he wants to facilitate a confrontation with reality while demonstrating that there are real world, factual, alternatives working as solutions.

      It’s the big hump we have to climb with the polls still showing that majorities don’t want to see drastic entitlement changes. But if we ever want to see anything but marginal entitlement adjustments that always end up on the back of the taxpayers and service providers, people like Perry have to make the exact case he’s making.

    • GetBackJack says:

      As To Perry, two thoughts –

      1. I consider his chances slim at best because I can’t imagine the 50%+ voter base that favors the Left being able to tolerate the idea of another Christian Republican governor from Texas in the White House, And the media will hang the Judas of GWB around Rick’s Texas Christian Republican neck at every opportunity.

      2. http://blog.chron.com/believeitornot/2011/08/gov-rick-perrys-relationship-with-muslims-may-set-him-apart/ Perry appears to be another RINO Islam loving knucklehead who simply DOES NOT GET IT. Trying to ‘reach out’ to Islam is like trying to ‘reach out’ to Satan. It’s not just too stupid for words, and telegraphs everything I need to know that his world-view has been infected with what Sister Lucia (of Fatima fame) referred to as the ‘diabolical disorientation’.

      Personally, I think you could run Jesus Christ and Buddha on the Republican ticket and Hillary will still win the White House in 2012. ‘.

    • proreason says:

      Just read the speech at PJM. It’s excellent.

      Need to learn more, but he looks strong if he can dance are rails 3, 4 and 5. It will be interesting to hear what he has to say about that.

      Gee GBJ, I’m just having a hard time believing he’s a Muslim lover. What do you expect him to do, deport them? Not gonna happen.

      Your point about Dubya is better, and I’ve thought it was a disqualifier for a couple of years. With Little Lenin dancing on the graves of ten million new unemployed people though, I’m thinking comparisons to bushhitler aren’t going to be so influential this time.

      If he gets the nomination, what we thought was class warfare will begin to look like a stoll thru the tulips.

    • GetBackJack says:

      Did Not Say Perry is a “MUslim Lover”. What my thoughts imply is that despite his publicly professed Christian faith, Perry has made political choices that are supremely dangerous to our national security. “Reaching out” to Islam is like Ike “reaching out” to Soviet Communism in 1950. Or, King Edward “reaching out” to the Nazis. “Outreach” is a technical term of propaganda employed by the Progressive technique for making their enemies appear intolerant of differences. When what “Outreach” accomplishes is to allow the camel’s nose under the tent.

      Islam is not a religion and not suitable to American values and absolutely NOT compatible with the Constitution and the rule of Law. Islam is a complete system of religious theocracy, themselves utterly intolerant of differences. Why on earth would we (1) allow that kind of contagion in our body politic (2) why would we tolerate their divisive nature to take root among us and (3) why would we even conceive of “reaching out” to this kind of fatally intrusive system of Conquering in the Name of Allah in a misguided attempt to demonstrate our “tolerance”?

      I read Perry’s speech. It reads wonderfully. But then I look at his actions on the ground and cannot contenance his pandering to Muslims and I damn sure cannot abide his top-down commandment that Texas school children be exposed to what will surely be a watered down, feel good bull happy version of what Islam is.

      Any Man among us had a cold chill of retribution run down our spines when reading reports from Court of Warren Jeffs crimes against women and little girls. Who wouldn’t want to work out on him with a blow torch and vice grips? But warren Jeffs is as nothing compared to the insane inhuman brutality of Islam re: women.

      Why, in the name of all that’s Holy would a decent God fearing man REACH OUT to that?

      No. Perry strikes me as one more suit with learned scripts and dastardly deeds.

    • tranquil.night says:

      My concern with Perry is his Immigration Record, which frustrates me way more than RomneyCare ever will in terms of relevance. It doesn’t frustrate me more than still giving legitimacy to Man-made Climate Change though, which Perry has very strong words for.

      Nothing and nobody is down the line ideal right now. Arab/Islamic culture are apart of America now whether they can ever fundamentally reconciled to our values or not. Our destiny’s are shared now, and it’s going to be peace or war here and abroad. We can’t isolate ourselves from it, nor do I think we can simply wait for it to run its course. Clarity on the differences between Islamism and Americanism and engagement with honest partners are my only ideas.

      People are still human though, and the American worldview used to be exceptional in its ability to integrate immigrant cultures away from their more backwards traditions and ideologies while still allowing them to honor others which are worthy of celebration. I’ve seen that happen on an individual level personally, growing up watched by nanny’s who were Afghanistan refugees from the Soviet war in the 80’s. They were 100% loyal to and grateful for America.

    • proreason says:

      “My concern with Perry is his Immigration Record”

      He’s calling for enforcement of the existing immigration laws. He comes from a state with a huge Hispanic population, and one where he would be politically destroyed if he took the hardest line possible against illegal immigration.

      And he’s correct in implicitly saying that there simply is no way that 20 million illegal immigrants, many of whom have been in country for years or decades, are not going to be deported or imprisoned. It just won’t happen.

      I don’t believe he has said that illegals go to the head of the immigration line, although I’m not positive about that. I’m not sure what he has said about the border fence, but I would be surprised to hear that he has taken an absolutist position about it.

      It looks to me that his positions, as I understand them currently, are a mixture of principle and pragmatism, therefore reasonable, not troubling.

      Now, if Texas begins having the same level of problems as Arizona has had, it would be a mistake if he doesn’t alter his stance to a harder line.

      One of the things about Texas is that it is so large and has so many newly arrived people that the political reality is closer to the US than you might imagine at first glance. The fact that conservatives have done so well there in implementing conservative policies is probably something to learn from. My view is that regardless of the details, he knows what he is doing about immigration.

    • tranquil.night says:

      Thank you for the info Pro, that does help inform my opinion. The Texas DREAM Act is at the root of my disagreement, since I’m all about security first. Also I think the “deport 20 million” option is a strawman. He says he’s for stricter enforcement but criticicized Arizona for giving themselves the authority to enforce Federal law. There’s a bit of a disconnect that I’m hoping he’ll hammer out through the campaign. No game-breakers yet.

      Also, Dan Riehl is worried about the WSJ drive-by piece on some of Rick’s corporate ties. I’m trying to take it all with a grain of salt since all the hitjobs on him obviously indicate his formidable stature, and it all needs to be kept in perspective to the cronies currently in power. Overall I’m in impressed and am going to be listening closely. Erick and the guys at Ace seem to like him. Ed too. He has broad appeal within the Party.

  2. proreason says:

    I just heard yesterday that Sarah has a new grandchild, this time with her oldest son and his wife of three months.


    Now, as a dedicated analyst of the criminal marxistprogressive mind, I can’t help but wonder why it hasn’t been plastered all over the internet and the scandal rags. Surely the objective sleuths in the make believe media knew about the marriage three months ago, and there must have been some pictures floating about of the new daughter in law. I guess it’s possible that it is below the radar (lol), but I have a different thought about it. I think it’s a message from the make believe media.

    The message is “don’t run and we’ll leave you alone”.

    So I’m thinking they fear her more than I thought.

    • Melly says:

      Sorry – the Palin tradition of extra-marital sex is all over the internet. I just think that sexism is a factor. It was easier for the libs to go after Bristol. Liberals do such a great job at attempting to destroy women.

  3. sticks says:

    I think they must have polling data that shows that if they attack her it mostly suceeds in making them look bad except with the knuckle dragging frothing at the mouth lib wack jobs.
    Which are still a minority of Americans. Sarah Palin seems very much to be the all American girl next door, smart and attractive, someone your mother would want you to marry which makes it hard to beat her up too much in the press (though lord knows they try). Also She is unpredictable, someone who doesn’t act according to the script. So they have to guess at what might be effective ways to attack her. I am sure you are right Pro, they would do anything to keep her out of the race, even shut up and leave her alone if that would work.

    • tranquil.night says:

      Sticks, your comment about her unpredictability is what I think has them so afraid and flummoxed. The deranged obsession with keeping popular perception fixated on the absurd caricature they created of her in 2008 all comes down to the fact that she has the demonstrated ability as a politician – a true non-establishment Reagan reformist – to transcend traditional demographics and connect popular support to limited-government policies. That percrption is all the MBM has to keep people from taking her seriously. Her real potential is anathema to politics as usual and must be marginalized. I’ve argued for awhile that she’s in a unique place to campaign since she’s already endured the standard “Palinization” any of our candidates is going to suffer and is still clean and standing.

      Keep posting Sticks, it’s good to have ya here!

    • tranquil.night says:

      More Palin buzz!

      Dan Riehl: Why Sarah Palin Needs to Run for President

      Palin has two critical qualities, unique in that they combine in her. Beholden to no one, without fear, or restraint, Palin articulates today’s conservatism in a prudent, positive and cogent manner. More than that, the media, while much of it both loves and hates her, conveys her message to an audience far more broadly than they do for any other contemporary politician..

      The future of this great nation is at stake as two competing ideologies prepare to go head-to-head in electoral competition come November 2012. It is absolutely critical for a genuine conservative voice to be heard and heard as widely across America as is possible. Whether you support, or ultimately vote for Sarah Palin, or not, I would encourage my fellow conservatives to think in these terms.

      Smitty agrees, and adds a familiar point: http://theothermccain.com/2011/08/13/more-to-the-point-sarah-palin-has-weathered-the-lefts-continuous-napalm-shower-with-aplomb/

      she has already borne the brunt of an unbridled propaganda assault without crumbling. The more the minions of the Progressive Cthulhu strike at her, the stronger she becomes, and the more openly craven and stupid they appear. She rises like a phoenix from their ashes.

      After the next Wisconsin recall election, and after more debt crisis, Sarah reduces the risk that the Left can reconstitute itself by using hatred of her as a rallying cry.

      Especially with no real economic growth in our future on this current trajectory.

    • Rusty Shackleford says:

      Excellent thoughts all the way down the page!

      It does occur to me that the media will undoubtedly look very foolish when they try to Palinize any candidate, as you know they will. As regards human nature, people genuinely get tired of seeing most everyone being picked on if it goes on long enough. This is in part to the fact that we can all remember at least one, maybe two times in our lives when we felt helpless when being bullied. And, this oddly works in “independents” because they have some degree of sanity left. The uber-left, not so much. And, it’s entirely possible that everyone is just tired of hearing how evil Sarah is.

      Of course, this is all my own imagination working as when I talk to a very close family member and mention Palin’s name, they say, “She’s an idiot” with the emphasis on the word idiot. I read her book, she doesn’t strike me as an idiot or stupid in any way…..but then, I also believe you don’t need to be a Haahhhvad graduate with multiple degrees and the blessing of the academic elites to be a great president, or even a good one. You do need good sense, a strong sense of right and wrong, a working knowledge of how the government works, both good and bad (and yes, ugly too) and the ability to think independently while still keeping an open mind and able to hear all arguments, without taking certain things personally. I think Palin can do all those things.

      When people throw the “She quit her governorship” as an argument of “Will she walk out on being president too?” It’s explained in her book. And, she felt the media attention to destroying her was a disservice to her duties as governor and correctly decided to remove the fanfare by quitting. She didn’t want to but felt Alaska would be better served without all the trouble that the media was causing. Indeed, the blame rests squarely on the stinkers that hounded her and her family incessantly. Yes, in that regard they won but in the larger sense, they lost. Protecting one’s family is paramount in her world; Perhaps something the flaming turds on the left cannot get a grasp on, let alone respect. It was her call, she made it and stood by it.

      Would I prefer to have seen her tough it out? Yes. But if it was me, I might have made the same decision. Her obligation to protect her family meant that it would cost her her job as governor, sad though that may have been. As president or vice president, the secret service wouldn’t let anyone near her family so remaining in office would be easier.

      However, her book is filled with good-sense approaches to things…and unlike the left likes to believe, she can understand and sympathize with many sides of an argument. Yet she would remain focused on a clear objective without distraction. That is important in any president. We have seen in the past three years, the left try time and time again to play the distraction game. It was especially prevalent during the Gulf oil spill, which, as you will recall, killed centuries worth of habitats, ruined fishing waters forever, left oil slicks as far as Botswana and caused minorities and the poor to be the hardest hit.


      But the MBM tried their level best to distract us from noticing the (illegal) drilling moratorium and the jobs lost and the oil derricks pulling out and going to South America. And that’s just one example. Back to the original point:

      The media will pull out the stops when it comes to whoever wins the nomination and well before. As Rush said, you’ll know who they fear the most when they do this. They loved all the people on the debate panel because they want to pick the candidate for us that they want to run…knowing they are all considerably less than ideal. Perry is much closer, Palin as well. And has been said, Palin has passed the trial-by-fire test and the media has pretty much shot their wad and is only left with desperation. They literally screwed themselves out of any material. Sarah is still there, and still staying on-topic and doesn’t care what they say now.

      The majority of the nation seems disinterested and if/when Sarah announces, the left will pull out the old music but this time only the drooling mouth-breathers will dance. Everyone else will respond by yawning and turning their backs. “Heard all that before; What else ya got?” will be the question from the independents and even some fruit-loop lefties.

      The talking heads will start their editorial BS with, “Well, what can we say about Palin that hasn’t already been said?” and they’ll be right, of course. But then when they go into the old soft shoe or even full out tap-dancing, the citizenry will be reaching for their remotes. Indeed, an old episode of Gilligan’s Island would be more interesting to them than another “flaming of the shrew”.

      A Perry/Plain ticket? Just might work…but Palin would be a very good president and has learned how to throw dumbass questions back at the idiots in the media. I loved it when the media was so confused as to where her bus was going next. Simple, Palin didn’t tell them. Good girl, you don’t owe them the time of day. Keep it up. Let them play catch up and….don’t play by their rules. Republicans have been doing that for far too long and every-single-time have come out the losers. It’s very easy to answer a liberal reporter. Stick to the facts, stick to the facts, stick to the facts. Point out where liberal ideology has failed miserably and why Obama is a shitty president. I think you’ll win every time.

    • proreason says:

      I don’t think Sarah will run, but if she does, it will be as a sacrificial lamb.

      In other words, she will take the brunt of the sligns and arrows to let the other candidates slug it out on issues. It wouldn’t be a bad thing to do for the country and she is nothing if not a patriot.

      The chances of her being the veep candidate approach zero. Rubio has that locked up anyway, unless he, for some reason, refuses to do it.

  4. Mithrandir says:


    Ron Paul / Newt Gingrich = the best political intellectuals on the panel.

    Michelle Bachmann = most passionate, determined.

    Pawlenty / Santorum = looking for an ambassadorship or possibly a future cabinet spot someday…you know, just in case anyone happens to need someone in the future, just sayin’…..

    Cain = most calm and reasonable voice. Playing the unelectable black candidate a la Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, Alan Keyes.

    Romney = gets “Best-trying-to-act-like-a-Republican” award. (he should just quit-really…)

    Others = forgettable.

    Ron Paul / Judge Napolitano 2012. Both of them could rip up their opponents in the debates. Can you imagine The Judge vs. poor old stumbling/bumbling Joe Biden? –I would pay big $ to see that on PPV.

  5. proreason says:

    tpaw drops out.


    On paper he was and still is the best candidate, but as a campaigner, he was simply too bland for a time when the country is desperate to turn the boat at the brink of Socialagra Falls. He was the opposite of Little Lenin. All meat, no sizzle.

    When his first campaign ad hit, it was obvious.

    Take a look at Perry’s first ad. Outstanding.


    • tranquil.night says:

      Ooh, I’ve watched Perry’s ad a couple times now and it’s definitely powerfully compelling. He looks like he’s got a quality team assembled.

      Another thing that caught my eye yesterday was his announcement at Erickson’s conference in SC on the day of the Ames results. Huckabee and Fox having been ranting about it being a slight to the Iowa caucus, but I think it was a slight at Fox and the typical retail politics the mainstream media facilitates. Perry’s camp was engaged in Iowa, he did better as a write-in than Romney who participated in the debate and the fair. Erickson was a leading newsbreaker during the debt-ceiling, Fox analysts were busy calling the Tea Party intransigent.

      Pawlenty should take notes with his increased free-time now, because Perry projected more competence in that add than T did in several months of telling America he’s the competent candidate and that Michele isn’t.

  6. Illusions says:

    Obama’s job approval now 39%

    Gallup Daily: Obama Job Approval
    Each result is based on a three-day rolling average

    Gallup tracks daily the percentage of Americans who approve or disapprove of the job Barack Obama is doing as president. Results are based on telephone interviews with approximately 1,500 national adults; Margin of error is ±3 percentage points.


    • proreason says:

      It brings up an interesting point, and one that most conservatives will not want to hear.

      As Little Lenin’s approval plummets, doesn’t the ability of a middle-of-the-road candidate to win increase?

      In a 50-50 world, the strategy has to be to stoke the passion of the conservative 50%.

      But when his approval moves to 39%, doesn’t that mean that there are 11% who were for him, but now can be persuaded to vote for somebody else? Will they be better persuaded by an impassioned conservative or someone less polarizing. Isn’t the answer the less polarizing option?

      What we need the conservative version of Little Lenin. A bone-deep conservative who is willing to lie shamelessly to trick libwits into voting for him. (just kidding….illustrating the point).

  7. proreason says:

    Everything liberals know is wrong:


    Artic ice was 50% of the current span 5,000 years ago. There was no tipping point and the polar bears didn’t die out.

    I’m more inclined to accept as fact the opposite of what they say than anything else. I can’t think of a more reliable indicator.

  8. proreason says:

    new candidate for best chart ever.

    via Ace


  9. BannedbytheTaliban says:

    Just curious, does anybody know if congress has authorized the military intervention in Libya or is the President still in violation of the War Powers Act?

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