« | »

UK Won’t Let Gert Wilders Enter Country

From the UK’s Telegraph:

Dutch, right-wing politician Geert Wilders, centre, seen at Heathrow Airport, London, after being banned from entering the country, Thursday, Feb. 12, 2009.

Dutch MP Geert Wilders deported after flying to Britain to show anti-Islamic film

By Christopher Hope, John Bingham and Bruno Waterfield
12 Feb 2009

Geert Wilders had been invited to Westminster to show his 17-minute film Fitna, which criticises the Koran as a "fascist book", by a member of the House of Lords.

But on Tuesday Jacqui Smith, the Home Secretary refused Mr Wilders entry because his opinions "would threaten community security and therefore public security" in the UK.

Mr Wilders went ahead with his trip anyway, and flew from Amsterdam to London on a British Midland flight.

When he arrived at Heathrow airport he was met by two plain clothed officers from the UK Border Agency.

As he was being led away, Mr Wilders said: "I am not nervous but is this how Great Britain welcomes a democrat?" …

Mr Wilders had been due to attend a screening of Fitna, organised by Ukip peer Lord Pearson, in the Lords.

Lord Pearson said the screening would go ahead yesterday "with or without Mr Wilders".

In a joint statement, he and cross-bench peer Baroness Cox said they were "promoting freedom of speech" and accused the Government of "appeasing" militant Islam.

They added: "Geert Wilders’ Fitna film, available on the web, is not a threat to anyone. It merely suggests how the Koran has been used by militant Islamists to promote and justify their violence.

"They react in fury and menace to our intention to show the film and have boasted that their threats of aggressive demonstrations prevented its previous showing in the Mother of Parliaments."

In the Lords, Lord Pearson asked Lord West of Spithead, a home office minister, said: "Do you think this situation would occur if Mr Wilders had said ban the Bible?"

Lord West replied: "I certainly don’t think we are guilty of appeasement in any way whatsoever. The Government and I are great believers in freedom of expression…

The ban was supported by the Muslim Council of Great Britain. A spokesman said: "Geert Wilders has been an open and relentless preacher of hate – there is little difference between his views and those of the far right."

So much for freedom of speech.

By the way, lest we forget, Mr. Wilders’ film “Fitna” simply quotes passages from the Koran:

Fitna the Movie: Geert Wilders’ film about the Quran

If he is a preacher of hate, then so is every practicing Muslim in Great Britain.

Maybe they should begin deporting all of them.

If he is a preacher of hate, then so is every practicing Muslim in Great Britain.

Maybe they should begin deporting all of them.

This article was posted by Steve on Thursday, February 12th, 2009. Comments are currently closed.

83 Responses to “UK Won’t Let Gert Wilders Enter Country”

  1. proreason says:

    “This is the way the world ends
    This is the way the world ends
    This is the way the world ends
    Not with a bang but a whimper”

    Hollow Men, TS Eliot, 1925

    • BannedbytheTaliban says:

      A poem famously “quoted” by Kurtz in Conrad’s Heart of Darkness. Who would make quite a poignant figure in today’s world.

    • Alice L. says:

      “Hate speech” – any speech which accuses Islam and Islamists of violence and actually backs it up with facts. The Brits are finished and they allowed sharia to quietly enter and take over. They have politicians such as George Galloway, who actively and viciously encourage anti-Semitism; idiots such as Lord Ahmed, who are in league with jihadists; and stupid celebrities such as Annie Lenox and Bianca Jagger who attend pro Hamas rallies with thousands of Marxist dhimmis as well as real fascist Moslems! What a stew for a disaster. But they have problems with Wilders!!!!!!!!

    • jrmcdonald says:

      God save the Queen? The Muslim loyality is not to The Queen or her God.

  2. shalomsweetie says:

    Geert Wilders should be lauded as a hero for speaking out against this inexcusable tyranny. The entire continent of Europe has buried its head in the sand while they allow Muslims with an expressed expansionist resolve to take over their neighborhoods! Any dissension is met with violence. Wilders has called them for what they are–immigrants that invade and then have the temerity to demand that the culture be changed for them. Then he is villified and excoriated for it. A hater? The first person to cry “fascist”–that’s the fascist.

  3. curvyred says:

    I really think the BK should pay attention – this man knows of what he speaks.

  4. BannedbytheTaliban says:

    “So much for freedom of speech.”

    Via Joe Strummer:

    “You have the right to freedom of speech, unless you are dumb enought to actually try it.”

  5. Helena says:

    This really is appalling. The Brits are caving to Lord Ahmed of Rotherham who threatened to demonstrate outside the House of Lords with 10,000 muslims if Wilders were allowed into the UK. Ahmed also threatened another Peer with legal action if he allowed the movie “Fitna” to be shown. In 2005 Ahmed hosted a book launch in the House of Lords for notorious anti-semite Israel Shamir, during which the latter claimed, among other things: “The Jews like an Empire…” Ahmed refused to comment on his guest.

    That the government should cave to pressure from people like this is the really scary part.

    More on the current Wilders flap from the Guardian:

    The source of the controversy surrounding him is his extreme views on Islam, which he pronounces on with glee. Islam, he told the Guardian last year in an interview, “is not a religion, it’s the ideology of a retarded culture”. He likened the Qur’an to Hitler’s Mein Kampf and demanded the Islamic holy book be banned.

    “Not all Muslims are terrorists, but almost all terrorists are Muslims,” he told me. “Islam is something we can’t afford any more in the Netherlands. I want the fascist Qur’an banned. We need to stop the Islamisation of the Netherlands. That means no more mosques, no more Islamic schools, no more imams.”

    While he claims that he is exercising his right to free speech, he is being prosecuted in the Netherlands for hate speech.

    Wilders says he is a libertarian rightwinger and an admirer of Margaret Thatcher, and evinces contempt for European neofascism and racist parties or the anti-immigrant parties such as France’s National Front, Belgium’s Flemish nationalists, or the post-fascists in Italy.

    Well, he never should have admitted being a Thatcher fan. That’s what’s keeping him out.

  6. Lisa22 says:

    So sad to me, having lived in the UK for eight years, to see this castration of Britain. Where is the land of Admiral Nelson, Thatcher and Churchill? Are the British people so beaten down that they will accept anything? And the British government let in a leader of Hezbollah, but it won’t let in Wilders? Wilders is one of the bravest men alive. If only they had more such men in the British parliament!

    • jobeth says:

      Lisa you are so right.

      Being married to a Brit and being of UK ancestry myself, it kills me to watch a great and wonderful people be reduced to this.

      So much of the world owes so much to this tiny Island and its people.

      Its against the very nature of the Brits of old, to see this whimpering, too politically correct, people of today just lie down and let a bunch of angry nutcases take them over….and without even a hint of a fight! In fact many of these same PC Brits of today help the nutcases!!

      If this isn’t he end times I can’t figure out what else it could be!

      Common sense is anything except common today.

  7. shalomsweetie says:

    I just watched Fitna and felt my blood rush ice cold again. What a pathetic state we are in when good men with rationale are beaten down because they carried a hard and “unpleasant” message. What a lazy lot we in the West have become when we choose to go back to sleep after the warning bell has rung out loud and clear. What a gutless bunch. Why is it considered evil to look evil in the face and call it for what it is?

    I pray protection over Geert Wilders. Britain needs to stop ignoring what is glaring them straight in the face and so do we. I am so sick of this bend over and grab the ankles in capitulation to villains.

  8. Oracle says:

    Via blogging I have contact with several Brits and I ask them what is going on with the Muslims in the UK.

    Mostly I hear, “Oh I don’t get involved in that” or “That is being made into a bigger thing than it really is.”


    Then I am told that my position is extreme. As are my thoughts on those who kill babies in the womb. Extreme?

    We need to support this courageous man any way we can.

    • shalomsweetie says:

      But wasn’t this how it was in Germany as Nazism took over? What is the quote–those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it? It is the same ignoring, the same capitulation, the same, the same. Muslim nutwads aren’t hiding anything– but the media is. If it isn’t within the framework of the MSM then it isn’t considered legitimate or viable by the mindless public. Well isn’t that inside out and upside down!

      I need to go get some chocolate or something. Maybe my blankey…

    • jobeth says:


      We have had that same discussion with my inlaws!

      This is a country where you can’t fly the Union Jack for fear of “offending” someone, ie muslims, you can’t take a photo of anyone or anything without a muslim in the background, and in a country where the fresh alien comes in and gets to the head of the housing line***, and other welfare handouts…way ahead of the “real” Brits…you know the ones who can trace their ancestry back to the year 1000.

      I could go on and on. We have talked to my bro in law but he just keeps telling us that the muslims are NOT taking over. That it could “never happen” ?????

      Hey bro, I’ve been over there….open your eyes!

      ***Most Brits don’t have a hope of ever buying a house of their own there. Its all way too expensive for the young or average person. So, everyone gets to live in “Counsel Housing”. There is no stigma, because most people live in Counsel housing.

      Thats where you get on a waiting list to get a house somewhere. You must take it where they send you. You can ask for an area but they rarely give you what you want. (Here in the states we call it public housing)

      (Oh, and about the housing lines…Get ready for the same here if Obalmy gets his way. You know, “only the govenment can fix it” for us. Sort of like the Medical Plans they have in store for us)

  9. GuppyNblue says:

    The English have let this go too far. British Muslims insult, threaten and even kill “infidels” in their own backyard. But utter anything other than praise for them and some traitorous politician (whose pockets are probably loaded with Arab money) will silence you.

    “Mr Wilders has urged the Dutch government to ban the Koran and warned of a “tsunami” of Islam swamping the Netherlands.”

    He’s absolutely right. Europe is dealing with a population that won’t assimilate or compromise and it is growing like a “tsunami”. It will come to the point where they‘ll either submit to sharia law (and the hell that follows) or take up arms against their Muslim populations. It’s yet another perfect storm being orchestrated to destroy a nation from within.

    Go Geert go!

    • JohnMG says:

      Three men, a muslim, an American Indian, and a Texan are sharing a row of seats on a flight from New York to Dallas. The Indian gazes out the window at the land below and sadly says, “Once my people were many and we roamed freeely across this land. Now we are few and must live on reservations”. The muslim looks out as the plane flies over Philadelphia and gloats, “Once my people were few and confined to the middle east. Now we are many throughout the world, especially in the U S, and we go where ever we please and do as we please. Why do you suppose that is?” The Texan tips his Stetson back slightly, shifts the toothpick to the other side of his mouth and quietly says, “Well, it could be because we ain’t played cowboy and muslim….yet!

    • GuppyNblue says:

      lol – well said!

      Since the media mockingly referred to Bush as cowboy, I visualized him in that role.

    • canary says:

      yippie I oh!!! The children play that game on my block. Borrow my U.S. flag when they do.

  10. Gladius et Scutum says:

    Now the sun sets on Britain itself. If you need a thoughtful, detailed and thoroughly depressing chronical of the surrender, I recommend the Western Resistance web site. It has both US and UK contributors.

    The UK contributors are self-censoring now. An imam sucessfuly sued for slander when a book author pointed out that three separate groups of the imam’s followers had been involved in terrorism. Truth is no longer a defense against a charge of slander in the UK.

  11. It ain’t called ‘Britainanistan’ for nothing.

    You correctly noted the irony in the Telegraph’s headline of ‘anti-islamic film’, when all the film does is quote the Koran.

    Dhimmi morons.

    (No relation to Ashton Kutcher.)

  12. VMAN says:

    I guess it’s OK if they kill men, women and children but if someone points it out or speaks out against it then they are the haters? Make perfect sense to me. Oh there’s that crazy pig flying by my window again.

    • Liberals Demise says:

      I ganked the one that flew by my window earlier and we will eat everything but the towel it was wearing on its’ head. (that we’ll use to wipe up the BBQ sauce off our face) Of course there will be slaw and rolls!!

  13. sheehanjihad says:

    Here’s another example of the sheer ignorance of fundamentalist muslims. Just read what plague (other than islam) is going to attack the world this weekend. I bet Britain will be banning everything red to appease their immigrants! God….

    Hazem Shuman: “In a few days something very important and dangerous will take place in the world of the youth – perhaps even more important than tonight’s Al-Ahli soccer match. People will follow this event everywhere. I am talking about the global Valentine’s Day, the global holiday of love.

    “In a few days’ time, Planet Earth will turn red. We will become the reddest planet in the universe. Everything red will become more expensive. Red teddy bears, red candles, red pens – they will all become more expensive. Only one red thing will become cheaper: The blood of Muslims. All this is the result of the sins committed by Muslim youth.”

    “A Very Dangerous Virus… The Valentine Virus”

    “In a few days time, a very dangerous virus will attack the body of the nation. What virus? Is it AIDS? No, something more dangerous. Something more dangerous than Ebola, which dissolves the human body, more dangerous than cholera, which killed half of Europe a few centuries ago. I am talking about the Valentine virus, people.

    “I have come tonight to warn all boys and girls about an extremely dangerous virus, which is about to attack the hearts of the nation’s youth, and to destroy our relations with God. We must confront this Valentine virus! […]

    “The More You Celebrate Valentine’s Day, The More the Jews and Christians Are Happy, and the More the Prophet Muhammad is Sad”

    “Imagine that the Prophet Muhammad is standing before you, and so are the Jews and the Christians. The more you celebrate Valentine’s Day, the more the Jews and Christians are happy, and the more the Prophet Muhammad is sad. The more you do this, the more the Jews and the Christians gloat at us, while tears flow from the Prophet’s eyes. Do you want to make the Prophet sad and the Jews and Christians happy?!

    “People, if Muhammad Ahmad Ibrahim holds a party, and George Mikhail whatever holds a different party, [Muhammad the Muslim] will wear the same clothes as [George the Christian], both will buy dresses for their wives from the same shop, both will seat their wives on the stage for all the people to see, both will book a hall in the same club, both will invite single men and women and have them intermingle, both will hire a band, musicians, and female singers and dancers, and both will have crowds intermingling outside the club. If you are invited to Muhammad’s party, how would you distinguish it from George’s party?

    “You can’t tell the difference between a Fatima and a Mary anymore. Fatima wears the same clothes as Mary, listens to the same songs, she loves the same singers, and she watches the same TV channels. How long will we go on living this lie?”


  14. Odie44 says:

    I considered moving to Ireland, as a dual citizen, a few years back and visited for 4-5 weeks.

    Irelnad as a whole received thousands of “asylum” North African and Western Asian immigrants, regardless of the reasons – for they felt every other nation took Irish emmigrants for 200 years, they would recipricate. The policy began in the mid 1990’s.

    When I was in Cork (2001), talking to a few locals – the sheer outrage at rising crime, unemployment, and educational wants of primarily Muslim immigrants from said country’s led to miminimizing immigrants immediately. The Irish economy has flourished for the past 10 years, far outpacing the Euro “stalwarts”, Germany, France, UK, Spain and Italy.

    They recognized and swiftly dealt with the issue – nearly 10 years ago and a few months before 9/11, being there were 40 or so other Muslim terrorist attacks with thousands killed since the 1960’s. While Dublin and Cork still have the largest Muslim populations – it is no where near the complicity, derangement, arrogance and threat of Muslim terrorists and/or Muslim led policies.

    History does repeat itself, depending on what history you choose to follow.

  15. brad says:

    Bill Maher’s RELIGULOUS showed the talking points of muslims that were confronted with aggressive parts of the korean:

    “It’s just politics.” –as if that explains it all away.

    Israel has been warning us for years, “Muslims talk to each other, and to the world media differently on purpose.” –Yet we seem to not catch on to it. “Destroy Israel!” –“Oh no, we mean, ‘live side-by-side in peace’ with Israel.”

    No wonder we have world catastrophes like Hitler and Stalin, we are too stupid to see the warnings.

  16. 12 Gauge Rage says:

    Geert Wilders uses quotes from the Koran itself to back up his views and the powers that be of Britain vilify him for his efforts. The sun has permanently set on the Union Jack.

  17. JohnMG says:

    ….”The sun has permanently set on the Union Jack…..”

    Unfortunately this appears to be so. For how would the Brits fight the muslim scourge even if they had the will to do so. They effectively disarmed themselves four decades ago.

    Pay attention, America!

  18. Perdido says:

    I wonder what percentage of the muslim population in Great Britain have firearms or other weaponry.

    We know the Brits handed over there guns on the false promise of peace and security. The islamists don’t bother with British law, so… I wonder how far gone is Britain, really.

  19. brad says:


    Sound familiar?

    ….and yet humanity keeps saying the old refrain, “How could people not know the warning signs of Nazism? How come people stood around and did nothing?”

    …now we know, we are living it again….

    • jobeth says:

      Don’t you just want to go around and try to wake up everyone around us?

      Drives me crazy, your point seems so obvious

      Of course altho most of us who know history and try to avoid past mistakes don’t seem to realized that nowadays people don’t even know history.

      The libs have been so successful in rewriting it, how could anyone even know about Nazism? Oh, and by the way, how many times have you heard idiots say the holocaust never even existed!

      What a stupid world we live in.

  20. canary says:

    Over 20 years ago the Muslims fought to build a mosque in my town. We had the freedom to say at town meetings that it could be used to store guns to attack us with. One of their biggest supporter at the meetings was a Catholic Priest, who rightfully argued the right to freedom of religion. The Muslims won, but never built it. But, they are here. After 9/11 more came over night. They give dirty looks all the time. They are not friendly. They hate Americans.

    • Liberals Demise says:

      Do like I do: Hate back!! Do a Dirty Harry and point your finger like a gun and let your thumb fly forward! Gets’ them all the time.

  21. canary says:

    The reign of terror, the weapons and poisioing of Iraqie, WWTC footage, Saddam rampage.
    Lest we Forget.


  22. artboyusa says:

    Some comment here from Ed Husain, author the must-read “The Islamist”, taken from today’s UK Independent:http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/ed-husain-geert-wilders-ishould-noti-have-been-banned-1608209.html

    “Ed Husain: Geert Wilders should not have been banned

    Geert Wilders should be allowed in because this is a country that has pioneered freedom of speech, from Milton and Locke through to Mill.

    We have a strong, resilient society that is capable of tolerating debate without losing its temper or making personal attacks on those who are deemed offensive. When I debated Ayaan Hirsi Ali [the Dutch feminist and critic of Islam] last year, it was a civilised affair with powerful arguments on both sides and we need that sort of debate, if only to illustrate that Muslim communities are an asset to wider society.

    Tolerant Muslims must be allowed to show we have the strength of our convictions and are allowed to handle criticism in a robust way, just as any other community would. We have to show people Muslims aren’t just the most sensitive, the most aggressive, the most critical community; rather we’re very prepared to take on these debates and win.

    Mr Wilders has been invited over here by Lords and Ladies who have, to put it mildly, an anti-Muslim stance. They want to flare up divisions and show that Muslims are an aggressive bunch who won’t tolerate free speech. By using Mr Wilders as a holy cow to demonstrate their point, they’ve achieved exactly what they set out to do. Lord Ahmed, a third-generation immigrant, might have various complexes but his message is all wrong. Drop the ban and start the debate. Bring it on!”

    See, the tricky thing with freedom of speech is that its absolute and universal, or should be. If we only have freedom of speech for those who agree with us, then its just a conditional freedom which can be removed or restored at the whim of whoever happens to be in power at a certain moment. Wilders is by no means my cup of tea but he’s still an elected official from a friendly country who was invited here by a member of the House of Lords, he’s committed no crime and, especially considering the human garbage the UK happily allows in and supports with public monies, its a shame and a disgrace that he’s been chucked out. Part of the government’s motivation, natch, is that they don’t want to rile Muslim voters, who they relay on to retain multiple constituencies in this country.

    Bottom line: If people don’t like what he’s saying, tough. They can argue it out in public, like Husain says, and try to prove him wrong.

    • canary says:

      yeah right when there is a death warrant on his head. I wonder what human garbage he refers to allowed into the UK. Probably American tourists. UK will all be garbage if they don’t clean up these inhuman animals they allow to run the streets.

  23. sheehanjihad says:

    Just in case you were wondering why Britain wouldnt allow Wilders entry….they were openly threatened with 10000 muslims taking to the streets, and with the scenes of Paris burning fresh in their minds……the British Government died a quiet death. The cause of death was a massive infection from the plague of Islam.

    The very people who in 1989 were demanding the murder of Salman Rushdie for writing a book are today leading the charge against a Dutch MP for making a film.


    • sheehanjihad says:

      Here is an article that pretty much says what we all believe….what is unfortunate is that the people who are tasked by Constitutional oath to protect us refuse to do so because they mistakenly believe that “talk” will suffice.

      Thus, we now live exposed to the inevitable……and what is ironic is that those who tacitly support islamists to satisfy their own agendas will be the first to die at the hands of those who follow the reigion of peace.

      Muslims are foolishly thinking that the government speaks for all of us. They are going to learn the hard way evidently, that the government speaks for themselves.


    • sheehanjihad says:

      The bottom line is, any Muslim who closely observes Sharia law — and that is, incidentally, the definition of a Muslim, “one who submits to (the laws of) Allah” — laws that, among other bellicosities, clearly and unambiguously split the world into two perpetually warring halves — such a Muslim will always have a “divinely sanctioned” right to deceive, until “all chaos ceases, and all religion belongs to Allah” (Koran 8:39). All Muslim overtures for peace, dialogue, or even temporary truces must be seen in this light.

    • canary says:

      Good idea! ollah Obama should meet with Obama Bin Ladin; break bread with lot’s of hugs.

  24. Confucius says:

    Bring Mr. Wilder and his movie here! We can show it on Fox and in church. Maybe we can even show it in school as a preview to Al Gore’s movie.

  25. canary says:

    UK DON’T FORGET! BOX CUTTERS! Americans. Lock n Load.

  26. canary says:

    Wilder needs to get over here fast, while ollaha Obama isn’t looking.

    • Confucius says:

      And when he does, he can live in 111 Flaherty Way; Boston, Massachusetts. If Uncle Sam can’t find Aunt Zetuni there, then he must be safe from Allah.

  27. curvyred says:

    I cannot for the life of me, figure out why liberals are so quick to stick up for this extremism. I just do not get it – as demonstrated in the video – their believes are the antithesis to “open-minded” liberals.

  28. mybrotherkeeper says:

    Well, I have determined to come out more from my closet of cowardice. (I had been afraid to share my identity at times when commenting. Though I will keep my moniker of “mybrotherkeeper” – I’m not foolish, I will be more straightforward in other ways in the future.) These enemies of freedom, be they US communists or Islamofascists, can even kill me one day if they want, but they won’t make me afraid of them anymore. Their behavior shows who the real cowards are anyway. You can take my life, but you can’t take my courage. Besides, maybe I can help turn this around if I’m willing to suffer a little bit more for my beliefs. Edmund Burke said: ‘All that’s necessary for evil to triumph in the world is for enough good men to do nothing.’ I’m sick of their baloney and in a fair fight, frankly, I’ll kick their tails from here to China. Good riddance!

    • jobeth says:

      It’s a beginning…and you are not alone to realize it’s time to step up to the plate.

      Life lived under oppression is not a life worth living.


    • 1sttofight says:

      Welcome to the club. Lets roll.

    • Liberals Demise says:

      They can kill you ….but they won’t eat you!!
      Sic Semper Tyrannis
      Great Statesman Patrick Henry said, “Give me Liberty …..or give me Death”.
      “Don’t Tread On Me”
      and now ….my fav, “SEMPER FIDELIS”. “ALWAYS FAITHFUL”

  29. sheehanjihad says:

    Hot Air has a great article about the next nail in the coffin for Britain.

  30. ProudBrit says:

    So funny reading ‘brave Yanks’ telling we Brits how to run and ‘save’ our country. Try sorting out your own pox-ridden country first, then maybe we’ll listen. Sorry guys, but your pathetically limited knowledge of world politics makes everyone smile…

    • proreason says:

      Gee, I wonder what the immigration rates are from the U.S. to the U.K. and vice versa.

      Do you know ProudBrit?

      Don’t count the terrorists ;_D

    • proreason says:

      And not to belabor a point, but I did some work in Europe in 2002.

      The Brits were grabbing their ankles even then.

      So the affection you see on this site for the U.K. is mostly nostalgia.

      We know you are cowards now.

    • oldswimcoach says:

      PB, as an American stationed in Europe, I have to say the European version/veiw of our “pox ridden country” is significantly more ignorant and demonstrates your “pathetically limited knowledge of word politics” much more than it reflects poorly on the US knowledge and understanding.

      Stop assuming CNN and other main stream network news sources present an accurate vision of America (they don’t) and that the BBC is providing you accurate information about wold events (it isn’t).

      As an aside, Teddy Kennedy would be somewhat on the right to middle right compared to most European political leaders. That doesn’t make Teddy a conservative, it just means Europeans (in general) are so far to left that they don’t have a balanced perspective on world politics – they have a European perspective with its own limitations and problems. Their political veiws (most Europeans) typically run the gammit from communism to socialism – a very narrow range indeed, and missing a wide range of other, (and in my opinion) significantly better, more effecient, and more just options for government operations.

  31. ProudBrit says:

    Dear Proreason, not at all sure what you are trying to say as I don’t personally know of any Brits emigrating to the US right now. But then it would seem that the only people the US lets in are a) “terrorists” or b) Mexicans. As for US citizens heading east, judging from the average American’s knowledge of geography, it’s probably necessary to point out that there are a few thousand square miles of ocean to cross first. Do you know, I was once asked in all seriousness by a Californian how long it had taken me to drive to Los Angeles from London… God help us all.

    • ProudBrit says:

      The only reassuring thing now is that finally you have a President who is at least prepared to talk and, more importantly, listen. Maybe there is hope for you after all.

    • proreason says:

      The point is, there are thousands, perhaps millions of Brits in the U.S., many now citizens. Even relative to population, there are few Americans in the U.K. (other than for business).

      Imperfect as the U.S. is, the inflow from every country in the world to the U.S. is much greater than the outflow. The reason is that the U.S. is still the greatest country with the most freedom and the greatest opportunities (or was until the last few months).

      Now, regarding your criteria for measuring a country, knowledge of geography, my response is…amazement. But Europeans are a lot more impressed with everything about themselves than we are, so I’m not surprised you were offended.


    • pdsand says:

      100 miles wide by 10 miles long would equal a thousand square miles. As the Atlantic Ocean you are referring to is much larger than this, maybe you should think a little bit more before trying to sound so smart.

    • proreason says:

      Obamy, listen? Where on earth did you get that?

      Who has he ever listened to, other than the lunatic left and his handlers.

      Seriously, if you have a legitimate example of The Moron changing his postition after a discussion with the other side, I’d like to know about it.

      Blah blah, wavy fingers and “soaring rhetoric” doesn’t count.

      The guy is the most extreme example of doctrinaire hard-left politics in the history of this country.

      What you really mean when you say “prepared to listen” is “he agrees with me”.

    • caligirl9 says:

      Don’t compare Californians’ educational abilities with the rest of the U.S.

      We are too busy teaching illegal immigrants’ children how to take advantage of the system, and as a consequence, many Californians don’t know there is a world outside of North America.

      Unfortunately due to to our federal government’s ongoing irresponsible border policies, yes, it may seem all we let in are terrorists and Mexicans. Sometimes the terrorists enter from Canada after spending time in G.B.; that’s an easy way in. I expect that a majority of Americans would be overjoyed to have secure borders, but that’s not happening with politics the way they are today (must worry about growing the democratic party!).

      Enjoy the Muslim takeover of your beautiful, historic nation, PB. I’m glad I visited England before it was ruined by its immigration policies. You’ve tripped over a little bit of the Internet that happens to be home of some very bright people who refuse to drink TCO’s kool-aid.

  32. pdsand says:

    How many times did Blair and Bush meet, a few thousand square? If your concern is for a U.S. President talking and listening to England, then I would say Obama is a far worse bet, insomuch as he had the bust of The Winston removed from his office. But then maybe you’re not such a proudbrit afterall. As a liberal I’m sure you’re much more concerned that the U.S. President should talk and listen to the communist dictators and Islamic thugs who want to kill us. I should hardly be hopeful for what would come of that.

    • ProudBrit says:

      Who said I’m a Liberal? I’ve never voted anything other than Conservative (ie, Rep) in my life. I just have no time for your extreme RW views. Are Hitler, Mussolini etc, your role models?

    • oldswimcoach says:

      Hitler and Mussolini were fascists. That is a philosophy of the left not the right. For one who talks about how ignorant the US is of world politics, you certainly have not demonstrated any superior competence on the subject!

    • proreason says:

      Proudbrit is less of an ankle-grabber than most. He had the guts to come back in.

      Plus, he has avoided Kos-level blabbering.

      Kudos to him.

      After all, we have to understand that he hails from a country that has abandoned a history that has made the western world what it is today…..legal rights, constitutional democracy, free speech, free markets, innovation, courage.

      His country has become a land of frightened women, unable or unwilling to bring more children into the world, flailing their little fists at barbarians who openly brag about annihilating them, but afraid to say a word.

    • pdsand says:

      Bush’s foreign policy is the most conservative thing he’s done. He defended this country above the objections of France, Russia and China, and refused two or three party talks with North Korea and refused to meet with other leaders without first insisting on certain conditions. So you mocked him as being unwilling to talk, or listen, which is the liberal view in this country. You even used the H word, so since you were saying liberal things, I assumed you were a liberal. Maybe you’re a conservative, but you definitely haven’t nailed down foreign policy conservativism, at least as it is understood in this country.

    • Consilience says:

      Hate to get off the reservation pd, but I don’t believe Bush’s foreign policy would be characterized as “conservative”—at least not the action in Iraq. I did not support Bush’s decision to enter Iraq, however once the first shot was fired, I got behind and continue to support our people in uniform. Conservative/classical liberal foreign policy frowns on meddling in the affairs of other nations, think Pat Buchanan. If you’ve not read Garet Garrett, google The Revolution that Was or his book Ex America.

      Bush remains an enigma. I never considered him a doctrinaire conservative (compared to Reagan or Jesse Helms). And, I believe he hurt our party with faith based initiatives—ceding ground to the left that the national government has a legitimate role (which is Constitutionally specious) in wealth redistribution, and his talk of compassionate conservatism. Conservatism is compassionate by definition and his interpretation was insulting and patronizing of a philosophy that seeks to free men to make their own choice and live by their own wits—free from government coercion. Bush was no conservative; he was a mainstream traditional pragmatist—a pragmatist with a spine and the morality to respect Life. I appreciate his leadership and keeping us safe, but any thought of him being mentioned in the same sentence as conservatism evaporated with TARP I—which was unconstitutional and unprecedented in our history and established the precedent for the thug messiah…

  33. Liberals Demise says:

    Wonder how Proud PB would be if …. “WE”…. the colonist… had to haul their nuts out of the fire once again? Get ready to kneel; not before King or Queen; but to the East 5 times a day on your “MAGIC” carpet, chap!!
    “Bit of a sticky wick, what?”

    • ProudBrit says:

      Ah, I wondered how long that old chestnut would take to surface… Read your history: when Britain asked the US for assistance, it was turned down on the grounds that the US had no taste for war and maybe what the Germans were doing wasn’t so bad… Two years after the war had actually started, America blundered in only after Germany declared war on the US. America never declared war on Japan, but sat back and let things happen first (Pearl Harbour), despite the warning signs. Oh, and any assistance in the process of ‘saving the world’ wasn’t given freely. The US made billions out of the war.

      By the way, the saying is a “Bit of a sticky wicket”.

      Thinking back over history, check what horrors were committed in the name of Christianity. You could read many sections of the Bible and present a virtually identical film. As for the systematic wiping out of innocent people – what did happen to the Native Indian population…

    • canary says:

      ProudBrit/American Native ancestors this country, have free medical, recieve business grants not allowed to other Americans, given free government lands, some with oil, aside free land reservations where they make and follow their own laws, court, as they want. No, they can’t do peyote or shoot bows at people off the reservations We continue to make amends for something we did to their ancestors a long time ago.

    • oldswimcoach says:

      PB – again, you neeed to get your information from sources outside the BBC.

      While the US was late to the war with military formations, there was some actual thought and colusion with Britain behind the issue. The US manufacturing capacity was the primary capability “we” brought to the table throughout the war, and that was a huge strategic capability for Britian (Hitler couldn’t attack it effectively). The calculation for max production capacity vs. max military contribition allowed the US could provide ~100 Divisions for the war without detriment to the production capacity of war materiel (if memory serves, we feilded ~98 divisions of which ~88 were deployed to theaters of war, but my numbers may be off slightly). Britain on the other hand had trained and ready forces, but a significantly more limited production capacity, so initially they supplied the Army, we supplied the materiel while we ramped up full war time mobilization.

      You need both manufacturing and military formations to prosecute a war, and full mobilization of the US took ~ 3-4 years, hence the “British” veiw that we were late to the war.

      Poland, Austria and France would be justified (by your logic) to accuse Britain of being “late” to the war by the way.

    • oldswimcoach says:

      As for the “horrors” commited by Christianity, lets take the most egregious example, the Spanish Inquisition. First, this was really a politically driven event dressed up to hide behind the church, but I digress. the Spanish Inquisition ran from 1478-1834, with most of the activity in the 14-1500’s. The death toll ranges from a low estimate of 856 to a very inflated 5,000 figure with somewhere between (1,250-3,000) being the most likely range of victims.

      9-11, a one day event, took over 3,000 American lives. Muslim riots over cartoons typically take several lives to several hundred lives per incident. Secular folks (Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot) typically don’t start to get interesting until they hit 1,000,000 deaths.

      I now see your point, I’m ashamed to call myself a “Christian” (NOT!).

      On the American indian thing, you got me. We screwed up by following a hold over “British” policy of trade combined with forced relocations and genocide. You SOBs taught us well.

      It was a British general who tried to infect indigineous populations with small pox via providing blankets from small pox victims to indian tribes in winter. It didn’t work very well for the general, but US scholars have since tried to rewrite history presenting this an American policy and initiative to malign the early American government and military – don’t get me started on the traitorous academics in the US.

  34. artboyusa says:

    ProudBrit echoes an attitude I’ve heard expressed many times during the 18 years I’ve lived in the UK; namely that the US came “late” into WWII and somehow didn’t carry its weight (go to the cemetery beyond Omaha Beach and try telling me that). Anyway, its a viewpoint which ignores all the support given to Britain before December 1941 (Lend Lease, Atlantic Charter, escorting British convoys, financial support, etc etc) and things like the “Germany First” strategy and daylight bombing afterwards.

    It also leaves unanswered the question of whether it was in any way America’s job to jump in from Sept 1939 and pay in blood for the failures of British and French foreign policy and leadership which made the war possible in the first place. We certainly weren’t asked, at least until France was collapsing and the French premier begged FDR to send “clouds of airplanes”. Good old Europe; always there when they need us.

    • proreason says:

      Regardless of the timing, there is no question America’s resources won WWII. We funded Russia as well as Britain, in addtion to 600,000 lives. Without the US our fuhrer would be a nazi instead of The Moron.

      As for coming into the war late, it’s true.

      Liberals in America were just as nuts then as they are now, and blocked our entry. There were plenty of ankle-grabbers around then, just as there are now.

      Churchill is the one who got it right. Roosevelt is more questionable. Could he have done more earlier? His position was that he did what he could, consdering the substantial Lindbergh contingent in the US at the time.

  35. canary says:

    ProudBrit/you’ve given no explaination for not allowing Wilder in your country, especially when he drew light to terrorist in your own country. Don’t forget we whipped your pathetic bums when you tired to take our land, and bound us with chains of slavery (at least that is what Patrick Henry compare it too. We had few soldiers, compared to your many soldiers, ammo, and uniforms with rediculous hats. As far as you referring to America as “pox ridden country”, we don’t have “mad cow” disease that eats your brain away. CNN played your own British documentary of the muslim extremists doing whatever they like, and growing in your country. Maybe this documentary, also, was not allowed to be viewd, so they sold it to us. Then, there is the recent news footage, of yellow backed uniformed police, walking and running backwards while the terrorists charged you and called you cowards. You pressured your country leading to the withdraw from Iraq. While you may be proud of paying peasants that play King, Queen, Prince and Princess, and wear those silly white wigs in court, we do not want a King in this country, even if it’s just a costly, worthless, camelot fairy tale. P.S. Since you brought up the old chestnut, we consider the color of the tip of your nose up the terrorist’s bums, to be brown, not chestnut. Keep bending over and letting the terrorist have your bums. Ta ta.

  36. canary says:

    Proud Brit/Here is the violent Mulims protest, of your running police in case it too was banned in your country.

    Photo’s of them burning policeman’s hat.

  37. mybrotherkeeper says:

    Dear Proud Brit:
    First off, thanks for caring enough to confront us; that took some courage…Now I just ask you to go all the way and make some more judgments without fear.
    I do not want to take these things point-by-point, I just want to address at this time the statement about Christianity and the insinuation that it is equivalent to Islam. If you know evangelical Christian theology, it says there are just two types of people: lost and found, if I may. A lot of things done in the name of the church or Christianity were done by lost people, people no different from the Islamic terrorists today.

    But to cut to the chase, let’s talk about the time we know best–Today: Where are people doing things in the name of Christianity like this today? (As an aside, do you really know what the found people were doing back then? Do you know they, just like in Britain, were the driving force to eradicate many abuses? Throughout the centuries, some of them were being persecuted by the lost–in the name of their church or Christianity!)

    Here in America, there is a renegade pastor who spends his time demonstrating at American soldier’s funerals(!), picketing and saying the soldier’s death is due to America’s allowing homosexuality to come out of the closet. All Christians I know of condemn his behavior, both publically and privately.
    My point is, it is very hard to find things done in the name of Christianity similar to this; and when it happens, it is justifiably condemned. And today is what you and I really know, isn’t it?

    Where are these Moslems who should be condemning terroristic acts?

    No, on the other hand, a very sizeable percentage endorse such behavior. Some pollsters after 9/11 found that in some predominately Moslem countries, over 50% agreed with the attacks. And the ones who were under 50%, and I think they were the minority, were still very large percentages.

    As a side note, how can we avoid another world war when you have that many people who are rabid?

    So you see, the point is, you are comparing apples to oranges. I could go on and on, but please do your homework and think.

  38. canary says:

    ProudBritNitWit, It was the UK that came out with the King James bible. Compare Christianity and Christ’s teaching with your Quaran. It was the UK that first came out with the King James bible. We don’t cut muslims head’s and fingers off. I guess that with other changes the UK court system has appeased the terrorists with. oops!!! forgot, you had a King that cut his wife’s heads off for having baby girls. And you cowards won’t take your own prisoners at Gitmo Bay back.
    ProudBritNitWitn,Further more, you could learn alot from this Seetness-light site, that the CIA is so alarmed by terrorism in the UK, that they are over in the UK trying to save your cowardly ungrateful bums. Your welcome.

  39. sheehanjihad says:

    Proud brit….are you related to Neville Chamberlain by chance?

« Front Page | To Top
« | »