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Was Pelosi So Wrong About Swastikas?

As you may have heard by now, the United States Speaker of the House, the number two most powerful elected federal official, Nancy Pelosi, has accused the protesters at Democrat healthcare town halls of carrying swastikas:

Interviewer: Do you think there’s legitimate grassroot opposition going on here?

Pelosi: "I think they’re Astroturf… You be the judge. "They’re carrying swastikas and symbols like that to a town meeting on healthcare."

Of course her mistake may be understandable, especially in view of Mr. Obama’s latest logo for his healthcare program:

And it has been suggested that receiving Botox injections can cause blurry vision.

Of course given that she was talking about Democrat town halls, her confusion is even more understandable given the overlap between Nazi programs and Democrats’ pet issues anyway, as we all know.

The Nazis being: against big banks and capitalism in general, against big department stores, against pollution, for two years mandatory voluntary service to the country, for make-work projects (such as the autobahn), against vivisection and cruelty and to animals, against smoking and all tobacco products, for abortion and euthanasia of the infirm and undesirable – and, of course, for cradle-to-grave nationalized healthcare.

In fact, if you look really hard, you can sometimes even find a hint of anti-Semitism in the Democrat Party.

This article was posted by Steve Gilbert on Thursday, August 6th, 2009. Comments are currently closed.

180 Responses to “Was Pelosi So Wrong About Swastikas?”

  1. Liberals Demise

    Here we have the community organizer not happy with the community organizing. Mouth piece Nancy sees that the hobble are carrying swastikas when in reality we are carrying our collective voices to these so called “Town Halls” where I guess it is un-American to say that you oppose Barry Blowhards take over of the economy.
    First it was the Veterans then came the Tea Baggers and now it is the Well Dressed hooligan shrillers carrying swastikas, that hate Barrys’ NoCare notions.
    It has come to this now, “Us against them!!”

  2. 12 Gauge Rage

    LD, it’s not so much us against them as it is them being unable to handle any criticism when it’s directed back at them. For career politicians they’re not very thick skinned.

    • Liberals Demise

      12GR, I find it amazing that they (scum pols) are calling their constituents organized GOP thugs when it is a chorus of Americans that oppose this stupidity in government.
      They forget who they work for and why they are where they are!
      They have hooked their wagons to a train going 95mph over a bridge with a sign that says, “Bridge out!!”

      The “Dog days of summer” are definitely gonna get hotter for the Obama Goose Steppers!

    • jobeth

      ” (scum pols) are calling their constituents organized GOP thugs ”

      I keep hearing them accusing us of being a part of an “orgainzed GOP” group.

      That wouldn’t be bad to start with but notice when we make similar acusations against the left, we name the oranization. They never do. Of course they can’t because we are all showing up on our own accord and not by someone’s directions. We are protesting what we as individuals don’t like.

      Hard for the Obamabots and minions to understand that conservatives can actually think for themselves and not need to be told what to protest, where to protest, and how to do it.

      Lordy, they even have professionally printed signs! True mindless robots.

  3. BannedbytheTaliban

    It is amazing what elected officials can say, and get away with, when there is no one to question the veracity of their claims. Of course one-party tyrannical regimes all over the world know this, hence state run media.

  4. Confucius

    “And it has been suggested that receiving Botox injections can cause blurry vision.”

    It can. So can collagen and thorazine injections.

  5. BigBad

    Does it bother anyone else that Obama’s symbol seems to be replacing American symbols, like the FREAKING FLAG?!!!

    I thought it “isnt about me”!

    • pianogirl88

      BB…you are correct. With this group, we are seeing the beautiful symbols of this country being replaced with things that point to “the won”. You only had to see his campaign plane that, instead of showing the American flag, had his symbol in “large print” on the tail. When I hear Zero say, “this isn’t about me”, it’s a good bet that it IS about him.

    • bill

      You are correct … It’s all about him. He intends to rule not govern. When was the last time you saw an American President’s campaign logo on public works projects.

      It’s creepy this guy is.

      Never ever trust the Joker.

  6. beautyofreason

    LOL This post is great! There is a bizarre resemblance between the Nazi symbol and the Obama sign.

    As for Pelosi, well she wishes to denigrate normal people who oppose her policies by connecting them to skinheads and neo-Nazi thugs. Awfully low for her….the real thugs are in office changing our system.

  7. tahoma

    This fraud of a president should be impeached. He is nothing but a thug. Keep up the pressure, people, we will be victorious.

  8. Consilience

    Our thug president seems to be in favor of “organizing”—until folk organize against him and his minions. The man is pernicious and isn’t fit for the office.

  9. Its the symbolism, The methodology, the “mind control” methods.

    Obama is a good student.

  10. texaspsue

    Pelosi is a joke. I know she doesn’t understand America but. is she even aware of her surroundings anymore? This lie will not stand!

    The Liberals have insulted American citizens by accusing the Townhall/TeaParty protesters of being operatives of Republicans/Special Interest Groups. For one thing the protesters all carry homemade signs. Do you think that Reps./SIG would organize an event and not print up signs? Me thinks the Liberals protest too much and they are telling on theirselves.

    • Yarddog1

      Yes – with her skin stretched to the point she has to shave her neck to avoid a bikini line, her thought processes must be negatively affected.

    • jobeth

      texas sue

      Pelosi is the poster child for the term “useful idiot”.

      Wonder if her face cracks then, when they drop her once her usefulness is over? LOL

  11. StMike

    where’s the evidence for swastikas at the town hall meetings? any pictures or videos of swastikas at these meetings?

    • catie

      That’s what I was wondering, unless they’re sending in people from their side with them. That is something I wouldn’t put past these thugs. They’d claim to be “Republicans” but in actuality are really the rent a mob trash that always shows up at their meetings.
      BTW, haven’t this seem crowd been telling us for 8 years that “dissent is patriotic”. Guess it just depends on who’s doing the dissenting. God, I hate these people and what they’ve done to my country.

    • “unless they’re sending in people from their side with them.”

      Catie.. you mean Pelosi has engaged in “Friendly Fire?” ..(so to speak)

    • BannedbytheTaliban

      I have a feeling the Obama administration’s aversion to “photo-shopping” is going to resolve.

    • g gustin

      i’ll use my real name for the tattletails getting “fishy”info on me. But i think what she was talking about was a sign that show a swastika with a red circle and a red line going through it about nobamas healthcare. If their going to make statements about symbols of the past at least make the right comment about what she saw.

    • JohnMG

      She can’t even remember being briefed by the intelligence community about waterboarding. What makes you think she’d remember such minutiae concerning a protest sign? What makes you think she can remember? What makes you think she can think?! :-}

      Toys in the Attic if you ask me.

    • tuatara

      Yes, protesters have used Nazi symbols such as swastikas in order to make a false association between Obama and Nazism. Yes, there are pictures. I am astonished that the diarist would deny that right-wing protesters would use Nazi symbols to demonize Obama, while (at the same time!) using Nazi symbols to demonize Obama. The argument refutes itself.

      Here are a few pictures.

      http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/08/ss-nazi-sign/
      http://www.dailykos.com/story/.....ll-Meeting
      http://images2.dailykos.com/im....._large.jpg

      Of course left-wingers also used Nazi symbols to protest the Bush administration. It was wrong when they did it, and it’s also wrong when conservatives do it.

      BTW the symbol in the logo is a caduceus, not a swastika.

    • ptcutler

      Not at town hall meetings but there is a picture posted on liberal blogs, Huffington Post being one of them, that shows a woman carrying a sign with a swastika in a circle with a slash. That was a July 29th tea party in Ft Collins CO that I attended and I was standing close to the woman, my neighbor, next to her. That is the only sign of that sort that I have seen around here and that poor woman was just trying to portray her message. I think that picture is what has fueled Pelosi’s lies and deceptions. We all got it; Pelosi is brain dead.

    • catie

      You know ptcutler & tuatara I would take your posts seriously if they came from some place other than the daily kooks which you two must be a part of. I also tend to believe that more often than not, especially now that your botoxed pal has given you the signal, that you all will turn out with your little nazi signs and you will make them yourselves as you know that when the lefties always protest they have acorn & the seiu to make their signs for them.
      I will not deny that there probably are a few kooks who would do that but the majority of us are well dressed because were either a) taking time off of work or b) our parents taught us how to dress appropriately when we were kids.
      The left dresses like slobs so of course that’s what you’re used to seeing. They also know nothing but four letter words that they like to hurl at members of the military and their families. They also have no qualms about saying “damaged” children should have been aborted.
      As for you little kos kids who came over because your leaders told you that Rush was mentioning it and that it was easy to get on, you’re welcome here because unlike your little site, we get kicked off immediately. BTW you’ll also find our language much nicer than the language you use.

    • proreason

      Tautata.

      “The argument refutes itself.”

      Do these people have the ability to think?

      In the first link, no swastikas. A woman is holding a sign with the letter S written with straight lines.
      In the next link (from Kos of all sources), no swastikas, or anything else.
      In the third link (from Kos of all sources), a woman is holding a sign with a swastika surronded by a circle with a slash through it, meaning she doesn’t want nazi tactics in this country.

      Tautata is a fool, and too stupid to be able to find even borderline relevant evidence.

      There may well be some incidents of people with swatstikas. With 300+ million people, anything can happen.

      So when people like tautata and Stretch have to make this stuff up, you know how desperate they are.

    • jobeth

      Pro

      Ditto!

    • U NO HOO

      Yeah, and death threats, anyone can call in fake death threats or bomb scares or take out pizza orders.

  12. Consilience

    StMike, She doesn’t need evidence—reality is the last thing a leftist/statist/nationalist want…there’s not evidence to support any of the crap they’re peddling—from global warming/tax & trade to universal healthcare. A good dose of reality would find many of them behind bars!

    • 1SHOT

      Exactly right. Also, if the media repeats a lie, most people will except it a reality. Add change blindness and other psych tatics to the mix, and no one will know what happened until we are all wearing government sanctioned TShirts with change logos.

  13. Sharps Rifle

    And let us not forget, the full name of the Nazis was die National Sozialistische Deutscher Arbeiters Partei, or in plain English the National SOCIALIST German Worker’s Party. Hitler and his crowd were nationalist LEFT wingers! The only difference between Pelosi, Reid, Boxer, Hussein and the rest and Hitler, Himmler and Goering is that the ‘rats are INTERNATIONALISTS! Except for that, there’s not a whit of difference between the two!

  14. What Liberals fail to realize it that they have adopted a racially cleansed version of National Socialism, so in fact Democrats are the new Nazis. The Nazis dehumanized the Jews, Democrats dehumanize all of humanity and firmly believe there is some life that is “unworthy of life”, a central aspect of Nazism. This is all done by claiming to be “compassionate” for who would want to live suffering through life not being loved or wanted? Evil pure and simple.

    • 1SHOT

      You nailed it.

    • 1SHOT

      There are more similarities with the present admin and the Nazis.

    • bill

      The government takeover of healthcare comes from the early 20th century US progressives, then adopted by the Nazis as eugenics and now the Democrats are trying to sell same to America.

      Government healthcare, Cliffnotes version: Abort the unborn, kill the old, save money, give money saved to the Democrat Party and their activists.

      Abortion was the Trojan horse to sell to women as a right and then the State takes over that right and begins aborting, as Justice Ginsburg said recently, the undesirables. Both ends of the life cycle under State control.

  15. glbltrader

    First read this…..

    I just saw something at RedState.com. Here’s the headline: “If you oppose Obamacare, even in casual conversation, the White House wants to know about it.” Jeff Emanuel put this up 1:45 this afternoon. “If you see anybody publicly opposing President Obama’s plan to implement a government-centric overhaul of the health care system, the White House wants you to report that person (or persons) ASAP. From the White House website: There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to Flag@WhiteHouse.gov.”

    Now read this…..

    “If I encounter citizens who are being overcome by enemy propaganda, I confront them directly and make clear to them the enormous danger they face, appealing to their sense of honor.

    Anyone who becomes a tool of enemy propaganda and contributes to weakening our spiritual strength places himself outside the people’s community. He should not be surprised if he is treated as an enemy of the people and of the state. If all my warnings are in vain, I do my duty and turn him over to the authorities.

    I actively oppose enemy propaganda whenever I encounter it. I also do this with foreigners and friends abroad whom I talk with or write to. If I have German propaganda material at hand, I include it in my letters.

    If I find or am given enemy propaganda material, I quickly write in large, clear letters “Enemy propaganda” on it and turn it over immediately to the nearest police station.

    I do not show such enemy propaganda material to strangers.

    I obey all regulations against listening to foreign radio stations, not only because there are severe penalties but also because I view it as an obvious patriotic duty.

    I know that enemy propaganda material is an enemy method of warfare.” (1)

    The first paragraph is from our White House here in the United States of America.

    The second is from 1940 when the Nazis put out a booklet called “What Do I Do in an Emergency?” Of course the severe penalty is execution by firing squad back in the ’40s.

    Do you see any parallels between the two?

    Now, the quote from the White House states, “Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to Flag@WhiteHouse.gov.”

    For what reason and by what constitutional authority does the White House need to track free speech? I guess if you ‘catch’ someone discussing and disagreeing with Health Care, you should be reported. There are other examples such as the Stasi which was established in 1950 and was the Secret Police of East Germany.

    “These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to Flag@WhiteHouse.gov.”

    This is actually an official government statement and e-mail address, I personally cannot believe this.

    What has happened to debate and discussion of the pros and cons of an idea?

    1. The source: Der Reichsführer SS und Chef der Deutschen Polizei, Was tue ich im Ernstfall? Eine Aufklärungsschrift für das Deutsche Volk (Berlin: Verlag Hermann Hilliger, 1940), pp. 21-23.

    • 1SHOT

      The ruler in chief is not concerned with the will of the people any more than Hitler was. Now that they have proved they do not want to listen to us, does anyone think we will get our country back peacefully?

    • nobama2009

      I suppose we could just spam their stupid little email address with emails that say things like “Disinformation Found!” and have links to videos of Obama, Pelosi and the other lying Dems spreading the real Disinformation. If they can’t even manage a $1billion Cash for Clunkers program I doubt they could manage to keep track of millions of emails. After a while their unconstitutional monitoring would be overwhelmed, if it doesn’t get shut down before then.

    • bill

      It’s getting crystal clear it’s not about health, nor care, it’s all about the power of the State over the people to control their very existence.

      A heinous plot indeed.

      May explain those creepy Obama logos showing up all over the place … It is all about him, and building monuments to himself, with other people’s lives.

    • DGA

      “does anyone think we will get our country back peacefully?”

      No, not peacefully, nor in one piece.

    • proreason

      Useful post glbltrader.

      I agree with everything you and your responders say.

      This little brown shirt spying operation is the craziest and scariest thing yet. It’s no different that the Nazis or the Soviets. Obamy and his handlers aren’t as violent (yet), yet, but their methods are the same.

      But in a way, I think it is a good thing.

      Because the level of outrage is escalating very quickly in this country. Much quicker than I thought.

      And I think one of two things is going to happen very soon.

      The Obamiacs are going to realize that the people making noises in the Townhall meetings have guns back home, and the Obamiacs are going to ratchet their thuggery and communist ambitions back to the level of 1994 and 1995….

      or the guns are going to come out of the closet (speaking figuratively, of course).

    • alphasun2

      As a European with some knowledge of the history of fascism and present day fascist movements, I find this whole discussion based on logos, supposed “new Volkswagen” cars and other nonsense appalling. As a more level-headed contributor has fortunately pointed out, the health logo could equally well be compared to the US Marine corps crest and no doubt there are many other simiklar symbols.
      I am all for caution about bureaucracy, euthanasia and other phenomena that may be reminiscent of fascism, but don’t distort things. The Nazis sent specially designed vans round the streets to gas old and infirm people; they used forced labour and workers could be shot in factories for misdemeanours etc. etc. In other words, they were ruthless thugs, trained in the street warfare of post WW I German political unrest, who used fear plus diabolical propaganda methods to suck the German people into compliance. They were a continuation of the Kaiser’s agressive imperialism in WW I, allied to resentment of the terms of the Versailles treaty.
      Obama’s government is just trying to carry out some social democratic policies of the type that are common, and many would say beneficial, in Europe.
      Social democracy is what Germany was heading for until the Nazis eliminated it. Later it was re-established in Germany, notably under Schmidt. In the UK it is represented by Labour, which was elected just after the war and is in power at the moment.
      On guns: I am familiar with life in the UK and Ireland, where gun ownership is not a constitutional right, and Switzerland, where it is pretty well a national service obligation, though recently they restricted the holding of ammunition. All three countries have a good level of freedom and no-one is knocking on the door to cart people off to a concentration camp for opposing a national health service.
      There are several ideas in American conservatism that I find reasonable, e.g. egalitarianism vs multiculturalism — but when mixed up with this kind of discussion they become devalued.

    • nobama2009

      alphasun2

      The Nazi’s were far more brutal than the current administration is, but that does not change the fact that this administration is using other tactics that are akin to what the Nazi’s used.

      Firstly, propaganda: this country’s major media outlets are pathetic political mouthpieces for this administration and the left in general. They do not report; journalistic standards were lost long ago on these hacks. The American people are lied to on a daily basis; opposition is ridiculed as being racist, regardless of whether or not race is even involved. One of the only reasons that people in this country remain informed is because the great Constitution has slowed the ability of the government to contain the opposition. It has nothing to do with the fact that this administration is ‘better’ than the Nazis – I’m sure that if the Constitution were not in place they would be much more eager to show their true feelings, which may or may not have been as violent but it surely would be far more heavy-handed than what we are seeing now. In fact, this administration has shown their contempt for this great document; in Obama’s opinion the Constitution is a bill of “negative rights”, or what the government “can’t do to you.”

      Now, while Obama does not (yet) have thugs driving around gassing people in the streets, he DOES have his union thugs mobilizing to intimidate the opposition. He stands on his little podium accusing genuine grassroots opposition to his healthcare fiasco of being an unruly mob, astroturf, and illegitimate. At the same time, he sends out a memo calling for his union organizers to go out and shout down, intimidate, and otherwise prevent these people from voicing their opinion. Furthermore, he creates a highly suspicious email address to “monitor” free-speech. Whether or not he is actually able to find individual private citizens using this email, I think that his main purpose is to scare people into not publicly challenging him in casual conversation. He wants to scare people into feeling like someone is looking over their shoulder — this is NOT the government’s purpose and the FIRST amendment happens to EXPLICITLY say that Congress shall not “infringe the freedom of speach” (while it only EXPLICITLY identified Congress, the U.S. Supreme Court has interpreted this as applying to the executive and judicial branches).

      That being said, I think his motives are suspect. I don’t think Obama is as “good-intentioned” as you believe he is. In particular, I strongly disagree with this understatement: “Obama’s government is just trying to carry out some social democratic policies… many would say beneficial, in Europe…”

      Obama’s motives are not to make this country better. If his affiliations with anti-American extremists, tax cheats, a racist pastor, and many others aren’t proof enough of his character, you need only look at what he has already passed. His stimulus package is 180 degress opposite from what every reliable economist would recommend to stimulate the economy; and whether or not you agree with these economists, the fact remains that the government is inefficient at implementing anything of this nature. The facts speak for themselves, it has been SIX MONTHS and only 6% of the stimulus has been spent – jobs are tanking with no sign of looking up (in spite of what the leftist propaganda machine is spewing out) any time soon. For christ’s sake, the stimulus is meant to create jobs and stimulate the economy and it has billions of dollars spent on fixing up government toilets and paying for HAM and CHEESE! And what do you think it was that allowed this to pass? FEAR! He is fear-mongering, ‘we have to pass this now before its too late; the economy is on the verge of collapse, blah blah’; its not fear of being shot in the streets – its fear about everyone’s livelihood being lost unless HE, the MESSIAH, comes down to save them. He uses FEAR to demoralize people to the point that they feel like they cannot do anything to save themselves; and what does someone in this mode of desperation do? They look for a savior- they will surrender their rights to survive! (this, by the way, is part of a subversion tactic used by the Russians and other totalitarians to convert a take control of a target population). Fortunately enough of the population is aware of this that he hasn’t completely taken advantage of them, but that says nothing for his character.

      Furthermore, his healthcare bill (the CORNERSTONE of his administration) has nothing to do with making people’s lives better. It has nothing to do with making healthcare better. It is ALL about government control. The U.S. already has arguably the BEST healthcare in the world; “many would say beneficial, in Europe”? How many people fly to Europe to get their Healthcare? How many people come to the U.S. for healthcare? How many Canadians and Mexicans come to America for healthcare? Next, he claims that the point of this “healthcare reform” is to stem rising costs — it increases the costs! It ADDS $1.3 TRILLION in national debt! Now, WHY would someone be SO strongly in favor of this if his PRIMARY concern were to actually save people money? They WOULDNT! Your only option at this point would be to conclude that such a person is either irrational, stupid, or lying about their motives.

      There is so much more that can be said to prove his true motives; the more that is found out about this man the more suspicious he becomes. And did you know, the FIRST executive order he signed when he became President was to seal all of his records? Got something to hide, hmm?

      In any case, I could go on and on about how much Obama has lied. So, what’s the pattern we see here? Nazi’s used FEAR and PROPAGANDA to take control. Does Obama use fear to create chaos and ram things through? Yes. Does Obama use propaganda? Yes. These are only two similarities that I’m going to discuss, since these were the two you mentioned, but Democrats (esp Obama) have many other views in-sync with Nazis (the environment, private business, healthcare, etc.). I think it’s time for Obama to go, and take Pelosi with him.

    • proreason

      alphasun2 : As a European with some knowledge of the history of fascism and present day fascist movements, I find this whole discussion based on logos, supposed “new Volkswagen” cars and other nonsense appalling. …The Nazis sent specially designed vans round the streets to gas old and infirm people”

      This is just dumb.

      Nobody here is suggesting that the Obama administration is acting as Nazi’s did at the height of their mania.

      Anybody suggesting it is probably acting in behalf of the budding nazis in Obama’s cabal.

      There are many many parallels between what The Moron’s cabal is doing and the early days of many totalitarian regimes. The parallels are undeniable.
      - attempts to suppress free speech
      - encouraging reports of dissent
      - thug tactics to break up dissenters
      - abuse of the law to free “good” thugs when their actions are clearly illegal
      - formation of semi-official “police” organizations
      - sanction of propaganda at the highest level of the political structure
      - witch hunts.
      - calls for show trials
      - refusal to listen to reasonable debate
      - shouting down of opposition
      - rush to pass legislation
      - creation of false crises
      - demonization of groups of people
      - declaration of mandates when none exist
      - facist takeovers of private businesses
      - refusal to recognize established contract law
      - and many more

      those are Totalitarian tactics, pure and simple.

    • jobeth

      alphasun2

      As was mentioned by someone else on S&L (forgive me for not remembering who) I will ask you once again…

      Did Hitler pull off any of his dirty tricks on his countrymen in ’23…’33? Let alone 6 months into his dictatorship?

      What do you think this country will look like in 10 years if he gets everything he is demanding…including muffling any and all opposition?

      What were the Germans doing in ’23 or ’33? What if they had spoken up…fought back early before Hitler got his minions in order? How many Jews, Gypsies, handicapped, and others would have lived until they died a natural death?

      Are you so blind you can’t see the cliff down the road BEFORE you run off it?

      You speak as one who has seen a better and lovely life for the Europeans and that Obama is only trying to provide this for America. Let me tell you, many on this blog have come from, lived in, and have relatives still in Europe dealing with what Socialism has placed on their backs. So we KNOW what has and is happening in Europe.

      They die at the hands of rationed care in the UK…I speak of that first hand. WE don’t want that here. My sister in law was forced to change her DR simply because she moved less than 10 miles from her DR. Seems she had to change to one the government assigned to her new area.

      I happen to currently have the privilege to travel 2 hours one way by choice because I love my practitioner and he knows my health issues. Under Obama…that would change. It would have to.

      I am 65…my father in law was refused care due to age (rationing) and died. Right now, that won’t happen to me. Under Obama…he has already gone on record saying we will have to make “hard choices” and take a pill to make me comfortable if my heath care becomes expensive.

      Right now I have the privilege to opt for my own health insurance…the Advantage plan in Medicare because Medicare can’t give me what I have now. Under Obama in a few years that privilege will evaporate.

      Most young families can’t purchase their own homes in the UK because of the very high cost. These hard working high tax paying , mainstream middle class people must accept assignment in government owned and run council housing which may or may not meet their needs. My own step daughter suffered for several years of having to keep her kids inside due to thugs in the neighborhood beating on her son every time he went outside. She begged for several years to be moved and was pushed behind middle eastern immigrants on the lists for housing, that they always seem to jump to the head of.

      Finally she was moved…but not given any choice of location. In America NOW we have reasonable housing both to own and to rent. With Obama…that is sure to change. Everything he has touched has fallen to pieces. Name a government office that runs well. It will be the same for my American children if Obama gets his way. He has shown us very clearly he wants to control everything in our lives. He has already ignored law and took control of the auto industry. He has already taken perfectly good business owned by private citizens and either given it to someone else or put them out of business completely. That is against everyting America stands for. Not to mention illegal.

      I know you are a lib..so I don’t really expect you to think that far ahead, but just know we are not brainwashed by that European rhetoric. We are Americans and we are independent thinkers. Not everyone buys into that mindless behavior.

      Don’t know why you are here….Obviously you like what America has…NOW. But when it changes under Obama where ya gonna go then? Back home?

  16. Colonel1961

    Not to worry, I’ve already turned all of you in…

    • catie

      Actually I think my cousin and my so called best friend who was my Maid of Honor & is my daughter’s Godmother. She sent an email out yesterday (there were about 30 other names on it) saying that she knows we did not vote for obummer and that if any of us send anything to her, she will report it to the thug house and she was putting us on notice of such. My Godmother who is also my cousin sent an email saying she believes our cousin Pat, has taken various emails that we may have sent and sent those in.
      And I’m sure they’ve been “tracking” all of us as well.

    • Confucius

      catie,

      You should inform your cousin intimidation through e-mail is a prosecutable offense.

    • catie

      Confucius, I will let Susan & Pat know. Thanks!

    • jobeth

      Catie

      “And I’m sure they’ve been “tracking” all of us as well.”

      You can take that to the bank! LOL…they probably have all our IP addresses and traced us to our street addresses.

      We are bloggers on the CPAC blog of the year…Yep…you can be assured they are doing everything possible to find out who we are…along with every other conservative blogger.

      If I have to be miserable…It might as well be for a good cause!! LOL

    • proreason

      Catie: “that if any of us send anything to her, she will report it to the thug house ”

      It should be among your proudest moments.

  17. The problem is that many people fail to foresee the impact that socialized healthcare will have on us all; for example, taking a peak into the future we can see how Obama Health Care In The Year 2020 will affect everyone – equally – and we’ll all share slow, low quality medical care together. Who cares if it’s more expensive via taxes than our current system? So as long as we all suffer together, it’s the right thing to do – right?

    Facts are facts: every time Obama speaks about universal healthcare, the risk of cancer and cardiovascular diseases decreases by 58 percent in a Third World country. And when Obama stomps his foot, a sweatshop closes in Asia, with thousands of children in the streets demanding that the U.S. send financial aid, food, and medicine.

    …And then Nancy Pelosi spoke, and the world shuttered and died.

    • proreason

      a-1, you are correct.

      It’s much more important than money, even generational theft level money.

      Freedom is much more important than money. But even that isn’t the most important thing.

      Because, ultimately, it’s about our lives.

      They plan to steal years of OUR lives, and give those years to thugs, criminals, and deadbeats.

  18. I’m going to send them all the spam I get that sneaks through the filter. You know, all the “Make millions using Google & Twitter”, etc.

  19. proreason

    It doesn’t really matter whether there were any swastika’s.

    If there weren’t, there should have been because swastika’s fit the narrative Stretch is selling.

    So you see, it’s ok to tell a little white lie about it.

    It’s for a good cause.

    • BannedbytheTaliban

      Kind of like how the Muslims think it is ok to lie about infidels to defend Islam.

  20. Reasonsjester

    The sad part about all the controversy over the Nazi symbolism being employed in the national healthcare debate is that almost half the country is so miseducated that they believe that American conservatism is fascistic, when fascism and Nazism are collectivist ideologies. America’s Founding Fathers endorsed personal freedom and liberty, which are anathema to any collectivist ideology.

    The Democrats need to relearn circumspection and examine how much their proposals do resemble the Nazi platform. There are more than a few coincidental overlaps. That is because there is an underlying driver in American progressivism that sees unification as a solution to political problems. The history of the world does not support this assumption.

    One cannot support political centralization and unification and currency devaluation and multi-culturalism without seeking disaster. In the case of the latter policy, there is a mistaken opinion held by many that the progressive view of diversity is the opposite of racism; unfortunately, the progressives’ program of multi-culturalism and diversity includes affirmative action and hate crimes policies that have been turned, de facto, into attacks on white men. There is an undercurrent of racism not only against white men in American progressivism, but also against Jews.

    The key to understanding the current fascistic drive among progressives is to realize that it is has been a consistent, intentional policy of radicals and Democrats to divide the country by sub-groups; to deflate the value of loyal, benign patriotism, or love of the country of our founding; and to target all institutions that keep the country stable, such as the family and the church. After decades of shredding the fabric of this nation, the Democrats are asking for the American people to mobilize behind them to “put it back together again.”

    Even more insidious, the Democrats continually support policies that are an affront to the humanistic value of life, such as abortion and euthanasia. It is instructive to witness progressives’ support of abortion, claiming a woman’s right over her own body; at the same time they support a nationalized healthcare system that would retract an individual’s right to the possession of his own person. What is consistent with the progressives’ agenda to uphold abortion is that versions of the proposed healthcare “reform” legislation contain only thinly-veiled provisions to euthanize the elderly in order to “cut costs.”

    Fiscal arguments coming from a Democrat party that has given the country financial obligations for social welfare programs of over $50 trillion fail to convince that “cutting costs” is their modus operandi. The reasonable conclusion is that radical progressive support for abortion and euthanasia (by White House healthcare adviser Ezekiel Emanuel, e.g.), as proposed in variants of the national healthcare bill, is that it is a cultural position that seeks to undermine Christianity and the ethic of human life. This is extremely dangerous.

    When the degradation of the ethic of life is combined with increasing political centralization (with the latter’s tendency to perpetually unleash unintended consequences, which often cause a demand for strong, “active” political solutions; which in turn create more political problems, and so on) there is significant inertia towards fascism or other collectivist ideologies.

    The expansion of the bureaucracy is also key for fascism, since it promotes a utilitarian, instrumental view of humanity. Finally, control over the economy is crucial for fascism, so people have no other alternative than to cooperate with the state in order to feed their families.

    The ultimate barricades to a hard tyranny, as opposed to a soft tyranny, are the loyalty by the military to a Constitution that mandates respect for individual rights; and the possession of firearms by the populous. Although it is unlikely that citizens can mobilize an army in the event of a totalitarian crackdown, guerilla warfare, of the kind that helped the Americans defeat the British, can develop into a potent and effective resistance. If the army refuses to engage the public, then the government can be fought and toppled.

    The words of Thomas Jefferson are most prescient: “When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.” If the reinstatement of liberty requires verbal intimidation of our political leaders, short of the threat of violence, then the American people should employ it as readily as required, until the political leaders abandon their statist designs and re-learn respect for the Constitution.

    • bill

      Uh yep, you are right.

      The words have been so changed by the PC crowd that the facts are no longer recognizable.

      It’s a form of Newspeak, been used by the Democrats for some time now, for instance changing the words used with their terror wing the KKK. How much sense does it make to brand Lincoln Republicans as Klansmen.

      Another rewording has taken place with “lynching”, a practice employed by Democrats after the civil war. The Democrats lynched more white political opponents than they did blacks.

      For too long Americans have remained silent on this rewording PC crap … You ever hear of and African-Canadian?

    • Righteous Wrath

      I agree. We should start calling ourselves “Conservative-Americans.” We should propose for equal rights and affirmative action and hate crime protection. And laugh at the bastards who sell this kind of snake oil.

  21. proreason

    Reasonsjester, your post is excellent, and very well reasoned…..but I have an issue with it.

    You seem have an underlying premise that people like the female clown Pelosi are rational adults when they suggest that our neighbors are going to Town Hall meetings with swastikas.

    But they are power mad, self-styled elites with the mental age and IQ’s of children who have discovered that by promising the world to other voters even more stupid than themselves they can acquire virtually unlimitted power.

    And only now are the adults in the country waking up to the fact that we have been effectively conquered by a screaming hoard of children who are madly rushing to lock the cage they think they have positioned us within..,…so that they can play with their new toys with the expectation that the spoils they have stolen from us will last for the remainder of their lifetimes.

    So, what we need is PASSION and ANGER, not reason.

    • bill

      dittos … but polite.

    • Reasonsjester

      Sorry if I was a little verbose, I will try to be a little tighter next time I post. I also appreciate the feedback.

      Bill: I hadn’t even thought of the KKK being associated with Republicans in this context, when it was Democrats who dominated the South throughout the Jim Crow era. Another good example of a “big lie” smear of Republicans.

      Proreason: I agree that our politicians are detached from reality. But what I was trying to get across how systematic it all is, and how the contradictions in Democrat policies only make sense when you realize that, wittingly or unwittingly, they are perfectly destroying this country. As Evan Sayet argues (check YouTube) they are exactly wrong on every issue, and this is no coincidence. They hate America as it was founded and seek to destroy it. And brother, they are doing a great job!

      I have done a lot of research on Russia and the Soviet Union and I am strongly persuaded of KGB defector Yuri Bezmenov’s argument that the U.S. is being subverted (again, check YouTube).

  22. ptat

    They have been blindsided by the authenticity of this uprising and now they will respond strategically by subterfuge and polluting the purity of the movement. Obfuscation ahead!

  23. Ah, yes. It would appear that Speaker Pelosi is projecting again. Freund would be proud of our new Projector of the House.

  24. Meg10

    If there truly were people carrying swastikas, then my guess is that they were left-wing radicals posing as protestors.

    Why isn’t anyone denouncing Pelosi’s remarks as “mean-spirited and dangerous” as the Dems constantly do to anything the Right does or says?

    Also, love the comparison photos!

    • TwilightZoned

      “Why isn’t anyone denouncing Pelosi’s remarks as “mean-spirited and dangerous” as the Dems constantly do to anything the Right does or says?”

      I’ll denounce it AND take it a step further. IMO Pelosi is damn unpatriotic!!! How dare she make those kinds of remarks about Americans! Further more, I highly doubt any of what she said is happening and even IF it is I suspect they are plants by the DNC just too stir up stink.

      Something else unpatriotic…Americans reporting on one another. Will I ever be able to leave this nightmarish Twilight Zone?!

  25. DGA

    I keep thinking we are all living a real life version of a James Bond movie, where typically the plot is some dictatorus thug is trying to take over the world, and James has to try to defeat him. Always works out well in the end, 007 destroys the thug and gets the girl. Not a day goes by that I am not completely shocked how this is all unfolding before our very eyes. My question is, where’s James when we need him??

  26. PA Coug

    My wife mentioned another glaring similarity between Hitler and Obama: the Volkswagen. Hitler gave a spec sheet to Ferdinand Porsche to design a car that met his political requirements, and the resulting state-run car company, Volkswagen (“people’s car”) manufactured that car.

    If you think the cars Obama Motors manufactures will be any bigger than Volkswagens, you’re nuts. Have you seen the political spec sheet? Ultra-low emissions. Low Carbon Footprint. CAFE standards completely unworkable with the kind of cars we Americans demand.

    So GM and Chrysler will put together cars according to this spec. Everybody else will either do the same or be regulated out of the market once it becomes clear Americans do not WANT Obama’s idea of the Volkswagen.

  27. Righteous Wrath

    Ridicule is the sharpest knife. They are trying to use is against us but we should simply turn it around and start laughing at them. They are PATHETIC! They’re also dangerous and scary; but let’s not give them that. Let’s just start using their shtick against them.

    So, when The Nancy or The Senator (Boxer) or The Drinker (Biden) or The Joker give their “damning statements” let’s just start turning it around and laugh!

    That will kill them quicker than you can John Edwards. Remember him??

    • TwilightZoned

      You know, I think you’re on to something RW. When I was watching snippets of town hall meetings, several of them erupted into crowd laughter as they recognized the fraudulent information, AKA DNC talking points being spewed. The politicians were dumbfounded and it was obvious they didn’t know how to handle it. Talk about shock and awe!

    • Righteous Wrath

      Ridicule is what they use on Comedy Central. Jon Stewart is now the “most trusted man in America” or so they say! Make’m laugh make’m laugh make’ laugh! (Big Finish!)

      “Hey, Senator Ma’am (boxer) could you please stand up? We can’t hear you!! Oh! I’m sorry. I just thought your ideas were short I didn’t know that …..”

  28. xero

    It also looks like the US Army medical corps logo, or the US Marine corps logo. Dear god, we are surrounded by nazis!!!

    You people will latch on to any meme pushed by Rush, and deny any proof that yes, right-wingers protesting Democratic events do indeed show up waving nazi imagery like it was nothing. Face it, denounce them, and move on.

    • catie

      Another zero from the democraptic party. There weren’t any nazi imagery at any of these rallies. However, I expect that you and your acorn minions will soon be sporting nazi gear and showing up at these events claiming to be Republicans.
      “You People”-isn’t that racist?

    • proreason

      xero is well named.

  29. VMAN

    You know I think Obama is as big a tool as they come however the symbol on the logo is, I believe, a caduceus. You know the doctor’s symbol. I do believe though the Hippocratic oath does say “do no harm” which certainly does not describe the O Hole but then he’s not a doctor he just plays one on TV.

  30. TwilightZoned

    For your reading enjoyment.

    Site: americanpowerblog.blogspot.com/…/get-ready-to-see-nazi-town-hall.html

    Thursday, August 6, 2009

    Get Ready to See Nazi Town Hall Protesters With Swastikas

    Well, now that Nancy Pelosi smeared town hall protesters as Nazis carrying swastikas, we can expect to see a bunch of leftists infiltrate rallies with … wait for it … Nazi paraphernalia and swastikas. I guess it’s happening already, according to Sam Stein, “Anti-Obama Protester Compares President To Nazi In Swastika Sign.” (Via Memeorandum.) Stein notes that the “image was provided to the Huffington Post by a reader who is a Democrat.” Whoa! I’m shocked. The protest was held last week, so who can say if that’s the reader’s friend posing for the photo?

    Either way, we’ll be seeing a few more of these images in no time.

    Meanwhile, check out Michelle Malkin’s post, “How to Dress Like an ‘Authentic’ Grass-Roots Activist.”

    Michelle links to Zombie’s “Hall of Shame.” Here’s a few samples, all from San Francisco, California:

    “Woman fully exercising her freedom of speech at the anti-war rally on September 24, 2005″:
    (see site for picture of a woman holding a sign that says: Bush is a psychotic murder)

    “Rioters burning Bush in effigy and the American flag following the post-election rally on November 3, 2004″:
    (see site for pictures)

    “A prediction of what the future holds, at the post-election rally on November 3, 2004″:
    (see site for picture of a sign that says: The Left will Rise)

    The activist base of today’s Democratic Party (scroll down that link … “Bush-Hitler Comparison Endorsed By Minnesota Democrats”).

    And these folks have the nerve to call everyday town hall activists “Nazis and “tea-bagging racist thugs.”

    Posted by Donald Douglas

    • Reasonsjester

      There has been this smear of American conservatives since the end of World War II that their ideology shares similarities with the Nazis. Let’s debunk a few myths that drive this comparison.

      1. American conservatives are for individual rights, not statism.
      2. They are for liberty, not totalitarianism.
      3. They are for free markets, not corporatism or state capitalism.
      4. They are for private property, not state property.
      5. They are for a color-blind politically equal society, not for group rights.
      6. They are for freedom of religion, not theocracy.
      7. They are suspicious of government authority, not obeisant.
      8. They tend not to deify political leaders, though they revere leaders like Ronald Reagan.
      9. They are for less government intervention, not control over every aspect of life.
      10. They are patriotic, not nationalist.
      11. They are for federalism, not centralized government.
      12. They are for checks and balances, not unification.
      13. They support gun rights not because the seek to harm others, but to protect and defend themselves.

  31. Diamond Girl

    I haven’t read all the comments here yet, I do know on HuffnPuff they Union leftist mobsters/socialists to put it kindly, are going out in full force now against all of the TH Meetings…we know ACORN Chicago thuggery will be involved.

    The Unions have a lot invested in this…I imagine many of you already know that since I am new here, but I have a great link to the plan they have had when it comes O/Crew Health care from day one…just for starts.

    Do you just copy and paste the links here, or can you insert them somehow using words we are writing with some kind of a highlight system?

    Btw…I have visited this site many times in the past and used some of your great links/story blogs in other places over time…I heard about you again on Rush that pertains to this subject in the thread, saw the pictures on the ditto-cam…came here when I had the time to.

    Thanks for any tips.

    Here’s the link about the Unions and the plans for O regarding O-Care…this was on 11-17-08 mind you…after the election.

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/i.....geId=81204

  32. U NO HOO

    How about someone has a sign with a swastika on it with the universal red circle and diagonal over the swastika?

    Would Pineapple Princess Pelosi complain about that too?

  33. proreason

    “Do you just copy and paste the links here, or can you insert them somehow using words we are writing with some kind of a highlight system?”

    Copy and paste the url address directly into the comment (space before and after). It will highlight itself when sent..

    To bold something other than a link, before and after. There are other editting codes. Same as those on HotAir. Most don’t mess with it. We are more about the thought than the format.

    Short and sweet postings have a better chance of being read, but we have a lot of good long comments as well. Use your judgement.

    Avoid gratuitous profanity. If it fits with the comment, you can usually get away with it.

    Steve, the host, discourages pointless slurs, but obviously, we don’t think our slurs are pointless. We are even relatively polite to trolls.

    The only other rule I can think of at the moment is that Steve has recently discouraged posting about the birth certificate controversy.

  34. Diamond Girl

    Hey thanks so much proreason…

    Just one more question, I followed all of what you are saying with the exception of one thing, what does before and after mean?

    If it isn’t to hard to explain.

    • proreason

      I typed the codes and they made the bolds instead of showint the letters.

      To bold, type the characters ‘left bracket’ (above the comma), followed by the letter b, followed by ‘right bracket’ (above the period). To stop the bold, insert a forward slash character before the b. The slash reverses the previous command. The brackets announce and close the command. The bold command is b. The italics command is ital. There are others. They may be defined in the admin portions of the site as well. But I know they are the same as HotAir.

    • Diamond Girl

      Wow, thank you so much.

      I’ve seen this done on other sites and wondered how to do that, where I have been you highlight, go at the bottom of post, click a symbol at the bottom for bold, italics, insert link etc..

      I really appreciate this info, will save it too for a refresher when I need it.

      As you can tell, I’m experimenting.

  35. 12 Gauge Rage

    The left is going nucking futs over over all this opposition to national health care. I know that there are millions of leftist lemmings who see nothing wrong with it, but the rest of us see it for what it really is. It’s not cradle to grave health care but rather cradle to grave control over your life. And if at some point in your life you fall into bad health, they’ll decide whether it’s cost effective to keep you alive. Or deny you the proper care and send you to your grave before your time. He who controls your health controls your life.

    As for Pelosi and the other brownshirts, thanks for your comments on the dissenters. We’ve known all along who the enemies foreign were. But with you we now know for certain who the enemies domestic really are. You’re the enemy within.

    Keep up the good work everyone. You’re getting the left really angry with the protests. And when you get angry you make mistakes that others observe. Sometimes really bad ones.

    • BillK

      What you don’t understand and we need to fight is the fact for far too many people – including many of my coworkers – they want Big Government to be their parents. They want to be told what to do, how to live and in exchange for having their needs “taken care of” they get an allowance.

      I have not yet talked to any one of these people who didn’t think “we really should be paying more in taxes for all the things Government does for us.”

  36. American_American

    ad hominem: adverb and adjective 1. (of an argument or reaction) arising from or appealing to the emotions and not reason or logic. attacking an opponent’s motives or character rather than the policy or position they maintain: vicious ad hominem attacks. Latin: literally, “to the person”

  37. 12 Gauge Rage

    The same people who want Big Government to be their parents are the same people who say they don’t want anybody telling them what to do. As for the logic of why not pay more taxes for all the government does for us,…there’s no logic to that line of thinking. I’m a realist and understand that some taxes are necessary but our taxes are way too punitive!

    To all you so called enlightened lefties, the government is doing a lot for you. But in the worst possible way. To be blunt, Uncle Sam is ****ing you over but you’re so blind to this that you actually think in the long run it’s all for the better.

  38. wardmama4

    My comments have almost nothing to do with the Pelosi lie about swastikas – except I did not see a single one at the ‘town hall’ I went to.

    You can see the video at Michelle Malkin, et al (it’s just about everywhere now – and no this week I haven’t been around much to do my usual weekly slumming to check Daily Kos, Huff Po, Dem Underground or Michael Moore sites). [See Steve Driehaus - D for dumb for for the video]

    I was amongst the ones relegated to the outside (I could do a real long monologue on the hypocrisy of a Catholic Dem holding a ‘town hall’ in a Unitarian church sponsored by NOW – but that would be a digression I believe or would that be a diversion?!?)

    Anyway – I did end up a little more loud than I plan – it was because there was this older woman who kept saying ‘Free, free, free’ (she tried to wow the crowd with her – we lived in England for 14 months) – I really wanted to say back to her – ‘are you that damn stupid’ – Instead I played the one upmanship game – 7 years of living in Germany – nope – Doctor (OB) was nice but can’t say a damn thing great about paying massive amounts of taxes for what? Waiting, control and obligation to the state.

    The old guy next to me – who loves his medicare – kept changing his reasons/defense as a young man and I batted down all his reasons.

    Here’s one for you all to use – My husband is a disabled Veteran (23 years of service) and he has not seen a VA doctor for over a year – how’s that for great care? He has arthritis in his knees (take a trip to Fort Knox and on one of their show off days – get into a tank – and my hubby is small compared to most men) – locally one of the premier medical groups is running an arthritis drug protocol – he would like to join – but if he does – he loses the 10% of his disability that goes to his bad knees – thus is one of the ‘confines’ of government health care. They make the decisions, they make the parameters and you take it and shut up.

  39. Liberals Demise

    Good ol’ Uncle Sugar!

    Take care of that vet, WM4 And thank him for his service to our country!!

    • wardmama4

      That is nice of you & I will pass it on to my hubby.

      Also – another aspect of this (government/universal) ‘healthcare reform’ – our youngest son is a burn survivor and lost his right leg & fingers on his left hand.

      Since we applied to the Exceptional Family Member Program (in the Army you have to get approved in this program to get handicapped housing) – when he was 16 (prior to leaving the hospital/rehab) – we have been required to resubmit the exact same paper work & forms (however, currently dated by his current doctors) at 18 (adult hood) & 21 (which is normally the end of usual Dependent ID Card holding eligibility) – and as he was approved as an Adult Medically Dependent Child – we will have to resubmit the exact same paperwork & forms (signed by his current doctors) every 5 years until he dies to keep him eligible for insurance coverage.

      I have to ask – are the ‘determiners’ of government coverage so stupid that they think one day he will spontaneously re-grow his leg and/or fingers and suddenly not be disabled? And are these parameters that all Americans really want to live with?

  40. jedi

    Hey… if anyone has a myspace account join this one….

    http://www.myspace.com/obamunism

  41. dwp855

    its like the Dems don’t get it that the swastikas are meant to accuse them of being the nazi, not that the folks in attendance are nazis. So out of touch with reality. The logo, the union thugs, who is really the nazi here?
    So many things about this health plan scare me. like paying for abortion. why does that fall under health care, like getting a cavity fixed or allergy medication?
    And if the illelegal immigrants are now covered, how does that make things affordable for the rest of us that actually do the paying? How does that reduce my cost?

  42. Nan Sequitur

    Mr. Gilbert: “In fact, if you look really hard, you can sometimes even find a hint of anti-Semitism in the Democrat Party.”

    Not as hard as all that.

    http://www.redstate.com/erick/.....ng-nazism/

    The DNC and its members have been promoting the Minority Whip as “Eric Capo”, if you will, since he became a candidate for the 2008 Veepstakes. Get with the government healthcare takeover, or they’ll brand you as the type of person who does, well, what *they* do.

    And the thing is regarding the flourishing of anti-Semitism (the *real* kind) in the Democratic Party, that example is just the tip of the iceberg. It’s got the Wright stuff.

  43. annem

    Alphasun,

    As a European you must be very ignorant to believe that nationalised healthcare works!!!! As a fellow european who worked in healthcare in Europe it defintiely costs taxpayers a lot of money, does not work and is rationed care……with a high tax price tag………. Go and get treatment sometime….I worked in a neuro intensive care unit where people over the age of 65 were not admitted adn were considered too old

  44. wihosa

    Never been to this site before. The hatred and vitriol aimed at President Obama on this site is truly shocking. The comparison of Obama’s symbol and the nazi symbol is laughable (the Conferderate flag and the United States flag are both red, white and blue and contain stars and stripes, do they stand for the same things?). This kind of talk is going to push some wacko with a gun over the edge. Please consider what you are saying. Or, god forbid, it that the intent?

    • Rusty Shackleford

      Let’s examine:

      You said: “Never been to this site before”

      As with anything, you have to spend some time with something before you can make a rational assessment. However, you jumped right in and failed to understand the evaluation many here have made in order to compare nazi symbolism and its intent of 70+ years ago compared with the desire to get Americans all “thinking correctly” by the use of Obama’s repeated mantras, enforcement against contradictory thinking (SEIU) and his repertoire of belittling those who do. History is full of symbolism and often the Nazis used slick, stylish symbols to impress upon the masses a new order.

      You said:

      “The hatred and vitriol aimed at President Obama on this site is truly shocking.”

      Is it? Were you around during the last eight years when people were up out of their seats and calling for lynching, stabbing, murder of then president Bush? Were you “shocked” then? I wasn’t as people were simply expressing their outrage at what they perceived were things that the US government was doing wrong. Why so “shocked” now? We are as equally outraged at the intentional socialization of the nation by virtue of ignoring the constitution, the intention of making this nation purely socialist with “universal” healthcare which is neither universal nor healthcare and the way this administration polarizes the people, denies legitimate argument and further marginalizes people of different races.

      You said:

      “(the Confederate flag and the United States flag are both red, white and blue and contain stars and stripes, do they stand for the same things?)”

      Actually, as originally intended, yes, they do. And to many they still do. A unified ideal and people who stand firmly for states’ rights. The north imposed laws that were crippling to the Southern economy and forced them to obey. You need to read more deeply into the correct history to realize that although slavery was wrong, it was one very small factor in the War Of Northern Aggression. Politicians used it as a talking point. Much the way the Bush administration used WMD as a talking point to go after Saddam Hussein when there were many other issues at hand.

      You said:

      This kind of talk is going to push some wacko with a gun over the edge. Please consider what you are saying. Or, god forbid, is (sic) that the intent?”

      Here you have clearly identified yourself as a completely secular progressive liberal.

      Point 1) “pushing” some wacko with a gun over the edge.

      Wow, there are so many things conceptually wrong with this sentence it’s hard to find a place to start. First of all, if a person is mentally unstable, thus a “wacko” as you put it, there is little anyone can do or not do to modify their behavior. They will find whatever justification they need from their day-to-day surroundings. If they are predisposed to violence then there is little anyone can do to stop them. Same if they are a passive type who just rants and raves.

      Second. Guns. “some wacko with a gun”. Is that a special kind of wacko? How about “some wacko with a flamethrower”? Or, “some wacko with a pointy stick”? Or, “some wacko with a rubber ducky”? Honestly. The notion that the first thing a “wacko” wants to do is use their gun for evil. And thus, by association, you have also demonized guns.

      Here’s one for you, “And some policeman WITH A GUN will have to keep the peace”. There. How’s that? Better now?

      Finally, I have been coming here for over a year and have read people’s posts long before I decided to jump in. A vast majority of the time, the posts are thought-provoking, insightful and well-worded with a minimum of emotion as compared to any and all liberal sites I’ve visited. to say that this site most accurately mirrors my position on issues goes without saying but it is clear to me that YOU are of the mind that people cannot think for themselves and that if some “wacko with a gun” reads what is posted here, then they are somehow absolved of all responsibility for committing an act of violence.

      I submit that violence of late, in the last six months has been instigated and propagated by ardent supporters of this administration, with that added flavor of intentional racism, secularism and just plain meanness. Holder, Pelosi, and the chosen messiah himself has repeatedly said or implied to “get in their faces” and respond with “twice the force”. So, before you think some conservatives are about to “throw down”, you’d better take pause and realize that the unrest and antagonistic activity didn’t start with us. But liberals, who have been instigating violence since at least the sixties, are about to find out that conservatives are pretty sick of it.

      I also suggest you read the account of the “town hall” meetings and watch the videos to see just who incited the violence and then listen to what the elected officials are saying to condemn it. If you hear the same crickets that I do, then you’ll understand my point.

      However, being as you have the rose-tinted glasses that so many do and cannot think for yourself, I will therefore take action and cause you to go jump off a cliff by the mere mention of it. It should come as no surprise that my saying it will arouse intense feelings of self-loathing within your psyche and thus, you will immediately jump into your car and be compelled to drive it off whatever high precipice you can find and do away with yourself.

      Thank you for your time.

    • JohnMG

      Yeah. What Rusty said.

    • Liberals Demise

      Wonder if his mommy knows he was on her computer at that time of morning?

    • jobeth

      Rusty…while I’ve never been a fan of cloning…I’d gladly make an exception in your case.
      The more of “you” we have the better off we would be. Super post!

    • Rusty Shackleford

      Thanks jobeth.

      If only more 35-45 (ish) single women without children would think so. That is, those without a weight problem, emotional baggage, a crazy ex, etc etc etc.

      Lord, it’s hard to be humble…. (with apologies to Mac Davis)

      (that’s tongue-in-cheek humor, btw…except the part about the women)

    • proreason

      “The hatred and vitriol aimed at President Obama ”

      The vitriol is directed at policies that have:
      - sucked 20 trillion in wealth out of the country
      - thrown about 10 million people into unemployment since the democrats took over the Congress in 2007
      - created a shadow government that is totally unaccountable to anybody but The Moron
      - painted the United States over and over as the root cause for every problem in the world
      - demonized the national security agencies that have kept America safe for 8 years
      - demonized the capitalistic system that has created the modern world
      - demonized relitious people
      - blamed a humble policeman for doing his job
      - and a hundred other similar things

      The only hatred in this situation is the hatred Obama, his handlers and his zombies have directed toward ordinary middle class people whose ancestors have made this country the greatest of all time.

      We are those people.

      And wilhosa, when you signed up with the fascists who are destroying the country with your approval, you didn’t count on the fact that we won’t stand for it, and that we come from a long tradition of freedom and independence. Your sham, fiive-faced, lying leader is going to be deposed.

      We won’t stand for it. We will stop you, one way or the other.

      Understand that quickly, or suffer the consequences.

  45. cappiez

    Holy crap, are you people retarded or just flat out stupid?

    Have you people ever heard of the “caduceus”? You know, the name of the most common medical symbol on the North American continent? The one derived from the rod of Ascelepius?

    Never been here before, but given this one article, I wonder if the publishers of this website post stupid shit to bring out the complete bat shit crazies (the Gary Buseys, if you will) of the conservative party.

    • Rusty Shackleford

      Though I’m still undecided as to whether I’m “retarded” or “just flat out stupid”…I’ll submit that “retarded” is a very unfavorable term for you progressives who like to label things. I prefer, “mentally-challenged” thank you very much.

      But as to your point about the caduceus, my only problem with it is that I object to it being coupled to Barry’s little “O” symbol because the first part of the Hippocratic oath is to “do no harm”.

      Though you may find it subjective, I have found this administration’s activities to be doing nothing BUT harm at every turn.

      If you want more government…then good for you. If all this comes to pass and someday you find yourself denied care because some bureaucrat at a computer monitor says “no” then, come back and let us know how it all worked out for ya, ok?

      And, as to your ad hominem arguments by simply calling people names, it’s not appreciated. Especially by posters who neither take the time to read nor formulate a single coherent thought.

      Thanks for playing. Next!

    • Liberals Demise

      On further thought of O’Barrys use of the “caduceus” with his neo-symbol of his NoCare crap, I think he would be more accurate to use Dr. Jack “The Dripper” Kevorkians’ suicide device as his NoCare symbol. It just makes better sense!!

    • proreason

      Just a gentle reminder, cappiez, it was the fascist moron, Stretch Pelosi who laughably accused conservatives of bringing swastika’s to Town Hall meetings.

      The only “evidence” of that is a sign a woman held with the swastika with a circle and a slash, which clearly means she views the Health Scare Scam as a fascist tactic.

      Now, concerning the morphing of the Moron’s logo into a swastika doesn’t particularly interest me. I view it as mildly humorous, and a send-up of the idiot Pelosi, who I doubt is capable of reading a document like the Health Scare monstrosity.

      But what I do find interesting is the usage of the red stripe symbol that Obamy’s handlers developed during his campaign.

      Something like that has never happened in this country. The USA has a long-standing set of symbols that are used everywhere.

      I can’t see any difference between the Moron creating his own replacement symbolism and the symbolism created by Hitler and Lenin with the intent of creating their personality cults.

    • catie

      cappiez, retarded is an offensive term. Go back to your krazy kos kids and learn some manners.

      I guess your Dear Leader sent you here. Make sure you report all of us for the ten thousandth time.

  46. jobeth

    Is it just me? Or since Obalmy has begun sending out his thrugs and declaring war on anyone who dares oppose his “dictatorship” have you all noticed that there has been a definite uptick in the visits by the leftie trolls on the site?

    That they never get the point is not surprising. It’s not that important…they just get their marching orders and dive in for the “ONE”…. Mindless sheep.

    Great sign we must be getting under the skin of a few people in the regime. Someone must have thought what we are saying is “fishy” and sent out the dogs! LOL

    No matter…Its gonna take more than them to stop us from actually….thinking! (Try it sometime you leftie trolls…It works)

    • JohnMG

      It is a well known fact that morons are a social unit and travel in packs, being unable to think or function as individuals. And yes, jobeth, I had noticed the same thing. But the real howler in this statement…..”The hatred and vitriol aimed at President Obama….” is indicative of the lib-tard mindset. Unless these dip-shits were just hatched yesterday, and were thus unaware of eight long years of incessant BDS, they stand for classic examples of liberal hate-projection.

      All I can say to them is, “Run along now, children, the adults want to have a conversation.”

  47. U NO HOO

    “association between Obama and Nazism”

    Hitler invented the Volkswagen and Obama runs GoMo.

    Enough said?

  48. U NO HOO

    cappiez:

    Proof that the population is skewed positive.

  49. U NO HOO

    I’ve seen floor tiles with swastikas in United States Post Offices.

    So there!

  50. wihosa

    OK Rusty,
    You found me out. I’m a liberal secular progressive. Am I on the hit list now?

    But I’m a gun owner and I think most people have the right to defend themselves with a gun.Am I still a progressive?

    I also think there are some people who should never be allowed to have one.

    I know what hatred and vitriol look like, I don’t need to mull it over for a few weeks to recognize it. Most of the comments in this thread are full of it (hatred and vitriol).

    So the United States flag and the Confederate States flag stand for the same thing? Wonder why there was a civil war fought. Right wingers are so good at rationalization. Let me guess, mmm, states rights? A States’ right to make it legal to own a person? Yep, sounds like all men are created equal to me!

    The world has many wackos, but wackos with guns ARE a special problem. Flamethrowers are kind of hard to conceal and a sharpened stick requires close quarters and some measure of physical strength. On the other hand firearms can be hidden in a pocket, are lethal at 100 yards and only require the flick of a finger. You are clearly intelligent and so I find your retort to be self-deception. It certainly is’nt fooling me. I haven’t said anything about guns but about wackos who can be easily incited to violence. I think you know that.

    What are you talking about? It is clearly the right wingers who are opposed to any change in health care policy. They are the ones who have been shouting down anyone in favor of health care for all. “Just Say NO, Just Say NO” they shouted. Yep, no socialized medicine for us and keep your hands off my medicare!

    As for your desire to have me commit suicide because of my “self loathing” I would say that this is a classic case of what psycologists call “projecting” where one “projects” ones feelings and or actions onto some one else. It reminds me of a boy who lived up the street from me when I was growing up. He always accused everyone else of cheating when we played games. Why? Because he always cheated and so he assumed that so did everyone else.

    • Rusty Shackleford

      Again, you miss the point, but thanks for the compliments.

      First, the argument is not about “healthcare”. It’s about healthcare insurance. If any person in the US goes to any ER with a problem, they get treated. Sure, the bill will come due. Been there, done that. But many in this nation think that the argument is about whether or not they will get treated.

      However, with that said, medical care is NOT a right. It’s just not.

      Additionally, and historically, the have-nots always feel put-upon. I submit that even when I was a have-not, and, for the most part, still am, I do not think others should have to pay for me to feel some level of comfort that I’m responsible for.

      I am a veteran and I can go to the VA hospital and get treated.

      But that is a degree of medical care I do not prefer to subscribe to. I’ve had to use it before and I didn’t care for it. Mis-diagnoses, being talked down to when I did/said nothing to warrant that, etc.

      I have lived in the UK and Germany. The fact that they spend nothing on military defense speaks volumes when you compare to what their economies are going through. Even without a military budget of any substance, they cannot afford to sustain their socialist programs,such as cradle-to-grave medical care.

      The CBO of our own nation has indicated, repeatedly that the bill before congress shows no savings, cannot find same and is a very bad idea. In short, it’s financially unsustainable.

      Fine, you own a gun. I don’t. But I was attacking you on the grounds that you made general sweeping comments and didn’t qualify your argument, as you have now done. Your points are very well-taken. And I consider them valid.

      But wackos and guns…well…..I’m having a hard time with that. In nations that have sweeping handgun bans..well…wackos still manage to find them. I submit that “where there’s will, there’s a way” and if it’s not a handgun, it’s a home made bomb, etc. All it takes to put a full scale scare on is some white powder in an envelope. Murder is certainly a level above that but I think you see my point. I am using the argument that its’ not guns that kill people…it’s people that kill people and if a wacko really wants to, they will find a way.

      The implication for you to commit suicide was aimed at the assumption that it appeared to me that you felt people are incapable of making their own decisions and do so simply by the suggestion of others. I find it possible that some may find the motivation to action by reading something on a blog, but this is a nation that punishes what people do, not what they COULD do. And, so far as I know, the individual is still responsible for their own actions.

      The cases people have tried to make over the years about violent music, TV shows,etc are just excuses used by defense attorneys that usually deflate under cross-examination. So, my pointed stab at you was that by my mere suggestion that you should do yourself in would prompt you to action to do so. Obviously a case of illogic that I hoped you would recognize as being as silly as saying that someone who reads these blogs will be motivated to commit an atrocious act.

      With that said, yes, people who come here are angry. Socialized medicine is not a right. It is not in any way what this nation is about and people who come here are sick of the government, regardless of party affiliation, shoving things at us from all sides and we are supposed to accept it. I will speak for myself when I say I am no fan of bureaucracy, big government and the cubicle-sitters who have X amount of responsibility and no more, no less, but can make decisions based on their limited scope to change my life.

      I detest much about our system but also recognize that a certain amount of inefficiency is inevitable. But I have watched over my young life as taxes always go up, they never disappear, even when we’re told that once their usefulness is satisfied they will. I am sick of the game of politics where people of limited character babble to me and I know they’re lying. Many say…”well that’s to be expected” but I say, “Why?”. Politics is the place where people are EXPECTED to lie? Why is that and why must I accept it?

      And, the Confederate flag….the War Of Northern Aggression….welll, As I said, slavery was wrong. But…remember this, the north had no problem with slavery in the south. Truly. It was something “they” did down there and felt somehow morally superior that they had eliminated it some years prior. How high a horse they must’ve sat upon to tell the south that they wanted the cotton but wouldn’t pay much for it and how you get it is your problem. And by the way, no mills could be built in the south by government decree as it would compete against those in the north.

      Hm…sounds like it’s more than just about slavery to me.

      But slavery was the polarizing issue, as I said. The Stars And Bars stood for people who were opposed to the oppression of the north, imposing its economic will over the south. 90% of the citizens in the south did not own slaves. You may also be surprised to learn that many in the south didn’t think that slave-ownership was acceptable. And, you can’t tell me the issue of slavery was such a driving force that it pit family members against one another. Those types of divisions are usually on the philosophical level.

      Sure, there’s some hyperbole here. But far less than you will find on the liberal blogs where any post quickly runs to “F” you and “YOU A**HOLE” that.

      No we don’t like Obama. But by the way, any insinuation of offing any individual is not accepted by this group and when it is posted by anyone here, the owner of this blog deletes that entry.

      we are not about violence but we can come here and air our grievances.

      I apologize to you personally since you made yourself more clear.

      And, finally, right wingers are NOT opposed to any change in healthcare policy but we (I) feel it is the ridiculous path it has taken with judges awarding ridiculous sums for malpractice suits, thus forcing doctors to pay a quarter of a million or more in insurance premiums so they aren’t financially destroyed if someone they treat turns up dead or in worse condition than when they started.

      My argument is against the attorneys who fuel that fire. I like my health insurance the way it is…however, the prescription plan that I pay into is a running racket. I pay my insurance premium to them, my company pays into them and …guess who sends me my prescriptions, thus garnering the “deductible” when they send me my scripts? Yup…same company and they prohibit me from getting my scripts from anyone else and them paying for it.

      So they get all the money.

      I somehow don’t see that as “equitable” and allowing for competition.

      However, I’ll be damned if I let the US government tell me they have a better idea. I have had nothing but pretty bad luck when dealing with the federal system in anything.

      Lastly, regardless of party….they use tax money like it was a bargaining chip. Perhaps the nature of the beast but how….HOW can a person bandy about billion and trillion dollar figures as if they have no more care about it than they do about the teaspoons of sugar in their coffee?

      I personally detest most politicians and have an unusual severe dislike for politics. I find it ridiculously petty, childish and often sophomoric. I do, however see it as a necessary evil. I’ve often said that the people who really need to be in government are often too smart to ever want to be in it.

      I think our system is also being abused. When lawyers are 90% of our government, how can that be a good thing? Always trying to “out-clever” one another. After a time, like in the court room, the real issue is no longer important; It’s about winning. And, when lawyers are running the government, it’s the same. “People be damned, I’m a competitor and my pride is at stake here”.

      And no, I DON’T think they’re above that.

      Thus, with this “healthcare” bill, what I have read, it is not for the people. It is for its implementers. When asked if they would subscribe to it, the members of congress are curiously silent. Ask Frank, Pelosi, Reid, Holder, and any and all who think this is a real gem of an idea if they want it for themselves and their elitest attitudes show. If socialized medicine is so great, why didn’t Teddy Kennedy go get his tumor operated on in Canada? Non-sequitur, I realize but I hope I made a small point there.

      If the government in its current form, really came clean and really debated about the bill…and KNEW WHAT WAS IN IT….rather than just vote on it along party lines…then maybe I’d have more faith.

      Incidentally, I was against us going into Iraq. Not for the reasons the lefties were. I just thought it was a bad idea on many levels.

      But rather than go on for another seven pages, I’ll leave it at that. Your points were well-taken and well-presented and I appreciate the clarification. But I still think that this “healthcare” bill, as written is a very bad thing. I think it will break the bank and I think the democrats in office are largely a very angry group who are wanting to stick it to the republicans for imagined political attacks in the past when in fact, the liberal democrats are the ones who never spare the vitriol, the threats (Kill Bush, Hang Bush, Bush is Hitler) and hatred that those of us on the conservative side had to listen to unimpeded for eight years. I didn’t like “W” as president but I’d be more liely to sit down and have a beer with him than a polished, useless suit like Obama.

  51. BigOil

    wihosa – No doubt your concern for inciting wackos includes the likes of SEIU thugs unleashed by Obama and the Democrats.

    It is clearly the right wingers who are opposed to any change in health care policy.

    As a simple minded right winger – I’m not opposed to a change in health care policy – I’m opposed to any health care policy. The federal government does not have the Constitutional power to dictate how – or even if – I purchase health care insurance.

    Our unalienable rights are not Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Obamacare.

  52. canary

    Capiez, Luckily I’ve always noticed it looks more like a skull with a skull cap, so it only adds to fact that Obama thinks he’s the messiah of the world. We knew back when he took off his American flag pin, he was an American traitor, disrespecting the U.S. of America. One Nation under God.

  53. canary

    wihosa, your vitriol has you pretty whacked out to make such a present future tense threat. Your wording constitutes a “direct threat”, and is the ignorant uncivil action that causes the 2nd amendment to be attacked. Because you can’t handle the first amendment either. Just another obombie blame other’s for your violence.
    Amazing how people like Osama bin Laden can get people to terrorize and kill themselves or others, while he’s treated like ollah obombia.

    No state is for slavery. No state is a gang or a tribe that believes in cannibalism.
    We are the United States of America. I understand Obama’s anti-colonizing rhetoric is outdated, but telling.

  54. artboyusa

    wihosa’s right – we need to replace the burning vitriol of hate with the sticky knicker honey of Obama Love! Let’s lift up our eyes, join our hands and hold each other close and work together to create a new nation, nay – a new world, worthy of our Great Helmsman, the man (if man he be and a divinity) who has given us the gift of his person, unworthy though we are. To remind everyone of what that love feels like here’s a recap from the Artboy Archives of last summer’s Obama Love Poetry Contest:

    “ONLY IN AMERICA: the Legend of Barack Obama” presents a Follow Up Special Message from MEDUSA GORGONBERG, Obama’08 Campaign Assistant!

    Dear Friend

    The Mail Bag here at Obama08 HQ is overflowing with literally several responses to my Poetry Appeal! And what great responses they’ve been, each one is simply oozing with Obama Love! Here are some samples:

    “A Salute to Barack”, from Bill C in Little Rock:

    Barack, you make the Sun to shine
    You make the Grass to grow
    And in my heart of hearts I know
    That you’ll be an adequate President

    Thanks, Bill! And here’s an untitled poem from Teddy K in Hyannis, MA:

    Nnnnrrrr
    Nrrrrrrrrrrr
    Woooooo
    Woooooo
    Obama!

    Pretty avant-garde, Teddy but thanks anyway!

    Finally, there’s this beautiful poem, “The Brown Eagle”, from Brian W at NBC Nightly News:

    He soars like a brown Eagle
    With the heart of a white Dove
    He brings a positive message of Hope and Change
    And he fills us with his Love
    We are not worthy of him
    As anyone can see
    But Obama stands above us
    From sea to shining sea

    Beautiful words, Brian – thank you! This outpouring of verse tributes just shows how the people of our bitter and disappointed nation are turning away from boring old John McCain, with his “experience” and his “policies” and warmly embracing the exciting message of hope brought by President Obama!

    Thanks to everyone who wrote in. I put all your poems on Dear Leader’s desk and he says he’ll have a look at them as soon as he gets back from the gym.

    Have a wonderful, Barack-enriched day!!!

    Sincerely yours

    Medusa

    Medusa “Cookie” Gorgonberg
    Obama08 Campaign Assistant and Verse Idolatry Coordinator

  55. Gila Monster

    Damn Artboy! You need to give fair warning before waxing poetic, another monitor and typepad cleansing is now in que…… ;o)

  56. wihosa

    Rusty,
    It would be nice if the debate on health care policy in this nation could be as civil as ours. Inciting ill-informed people to shout down people who have attended to hear and make comments to their represenatves is not helpful unless the intent is to disrupt town hall meetings and prevent consensus.

    Health care is not at present a right unless you are old enough to qualify for Medicare or poor enought to qualify for Medicaid, but we on the progressive side of the issue think it should be. In my opinion it falls well within the mandate of the Constitution to ‘Promote the General Welfare’.

    At present there is no ‘bill’ just proposals for bills which is the purpose of the town hall meetings. This is the time for input from the citizenry. Kind of hard to do with the ignorant chanting ‘Just Say NO’.

    Libertarian philosophy can be summed up as “every man for himself” which is great for the strongest, but just imagine our country without Medicare. Millions of elderly people would be without health care. My 87 year old father and my 85 year old mother would not have lived to their present ages without the regular care they recieve because Medicare. There is no way they could afford to pay the premiums on private insurance. The fact is they would be dead by now.

    The retoric of the the defenders of for profit health care is full of lies. There will be no “death panels” as Sarah Plain claimed. The proposal says that doctors who consult with people on end of life issues will be paid for their services. The truth is that the system we have now is the ‘pay or die’ system. When private insurance benifits for a patient run out the family members are called in with hospital administrators and given ‘options’ for continued care. When the price tag for these ‘options’ is revealed it becomes obvious that there is only one option, the HTD (home to die) option. Of course the hospitals are always ready to “do all they can” to keep someone alive as long as the policy keeps paying, regardless of quality of life or lack thereof.

    It is amusing to hear the fear of “government bureaucrats” being involved with health care but not a care in the world about For Profit insurance bureaucrats who deny care every day. Millions are forced into bankrupcy every year as they must liquidate all their assets to feed the For Profit insurance industry. Meanwhile everyone with private insurance policies are subsidizing all those whose only option is the ER. Of course many of those who use the Emergancy Room could have avoided serious health conditions and exhorbidant charges if they had had regular health care.

    It is a sad and sorry state of affairs when the profiteers who enrich themselves on the misfortune of the ill are somehow seen to be righteous.

    In ‘Right Wing World’ when Jesus comes back, he’ll still cure the lepers, but only for a profit!

    • proreason

      “the profiteers who enrich themselves on the misfortune of the ill ”

      wow

      If ever there was a ringing bell indicator of bone-deep Marxism, that phrase is it.

      And what about the profiteers who enrich themselves on the misfortune of the hungry?. Or the profiteers who enrich themselves on the misfortune of those who live in cold climates? Or the profiteers who enrich themselves on the misfortue of those who need clothes, or shelter, or shoes, or a craft to earn money by?

      No need to respond.

      I know I’m not being “civil”.

  57. Rusty Shackleford

    Hi wihosa,

    I disagree that there is no bill. For quite some days now there has been rabid discussion about an 1100+ page document in circulation that our representatives have not read, nor seem to care to.

    President Barry talks obsequiously about his “plan” but has not mentioned page, paragraph or sentence of same…though I have seen photos of “the bill”. And as an aside, that which is in the bill and what representatives, including the dear elected boy king, are saying, disagree categorically. They speak of concepts while that which is in the HOUSE BILL is what they were going to vote on before they ran into internal disagreement and went on vacation.

    I do agree that medical insurance plans are a little hefty….but again, before 1960, health insurance wasn’t even on people’s radar and for the most part, it’s largely unnecessary. However, the middle class, liking to have a certain level of comfort, started pushing companies for help instead of digging into the family savings (remember when families saved?). The argument then was “We give the company a huge portion of our lives with our loyalty and service, how’s about something of a return that’s more than just a paycheck?” When companies kept employees for most or all of a career, that seemed to work.

    Many factors are involved and proreason has more inside info than I. I do know that the high cost of premiums is related in part to some level of the private sector greed. However, people will pay what the market will bear and if one company is too expensive, our capitalist system will result in another carrier, who wants the business more than the other insurance company, that’s less expensive. Insurance fraud is also a problem. Frivolous lawsuits for malpractice punish the whole system but seldom will you find any attorney’s going after a judge for awarding millions to someone because they endured pain and suffering and a life-change that really wasn’t.

    Adding to the mix is the media which is all-too-willing to get higher ratings on the “everybody’s a victim” shows. They drag them out, play out the real-life drama of the victim and then look for a verdict in the court of public opinion. I have said it on this blog many times that this nation is dysfunctional in large part to television. Not that people do what it says, but the mental pathways are influenced to make sense as it is portrayed on the tube. Or….uh…I guess nowadays “the screen”.

    Yes, I fear government bureaucrats. I was in the USAF for many years and like anyone I get to deal with the DMV..and I got to deal with the Veterans Administration and their version of healthcare. I can’t say as I appreciate any of them. People get comfortable with their level of responsibility and usually cannot help beyond that. That’s when you find out the other person whou could help you has just gone on vacation and there is no stand in because there is no one else who’s been trained on that. Then you come back and that’s when you find you don’t have the required form two-seventy-nine stroke charlie that allows them to review your record. The other person you talked to a month prior could’ve told you that because they know you need one…but they just happened to forget that day. Or, because you didn’t ask and they personally somehow didn’t like you.

    I’ve had bad experiences with…the DMV in many different states, the VA, the unemployment office, the military, and just about any and all bureaucracies that exist so I am adamantly opposed to another one that is so affirmative action-based that they will choose a person of color regardless of actual job qualifications. No, that’s not a racist statement…it’s a statement of fact. Because, these public entities get ingrained in the backwards nature of it so badly that what you end up with are many many incompetent workers. And for the record…last year the worst experience I had at the DMV was with a white counter person who gave me volumes of bad information and had I just listened to her, I would’ve paid over 1,000 dollars in fines. When I called DMV HQ at the capital, the nice lady (who told me to work there where she did in the MAIN office had to have a YEAR’s training) told me that I was told completely wrong at the satellite office, to deal directly with her and it got squared away in 15 minutes.

    Now, translate these bureaucracy snafus to a grand national scale. A car registration is one thing..but someone who’s needing medical care and can’t get it because “the person who deals with that is on vacation, come back next month”. No…uh-uh batman. Not for me.

    Government employees are masters at avoiding anything. Plus, they are damn near impossible to fire or even discipline. The private sector will fire people for bad service. The government will not.

    It may shock you to know that while I was unemployed, and insulin dependent diabetic…I did not expect my medical problem to be taken care of by anyone but me. That meant I had to have a job that would at least pay me enough to buy my insulin, my needles and food. Here I ran smack dab into the “human condition”.

    Entertain for one minute that everyone is “taken care of” as you see the Constitution to mean. Will unemployment go up or down? Will the number of homeless go up or down? Will drug use go up or down? Look at the UK where 17 and 18 year olds graduate from secondary education and the next day they’re on the dole. Unemployment in Spain is about 17.4% and is referred to as “disastrous”. Michigan is fast approaching that here and many states aren’t far behind. Spain has a socialist setup…and they are doing so well?

    The last part of my harangue here is about rationing. When citizens ask about it, they are not berating representatives or disrupting anything. They ask their questions in civil tones and get shouted at by congresspeople. I did hear one guy shout his question and I thought that unnecessary but he was being belittled by the representative at the podium. People have the right to confront their representatives. No conservative that I know of has made any threats, intended violence, or anything of the kind. We just want answers. Answers that apparently the elected officials either don’t WANT to answer or they can’t because they don’t know what the bill says. They merely have been told to sell the idea.

    But when the bill states quite clearly that people will have to make decisions about end-of-life care and that basically a government bureaucrat will make that decision…as compared to an insurance company not paying for it…there is a huge difference. The government bureaucrat is rationing it. The insurance company is simply saying they won’t pay for it. Yes, maybe the children of the senior citizen sign over their mortgage to pay for it…but the procedure was never denied. With the government plan…it will be.

    That’s what citizens are arguing. Plus, again, it’s not healthcare that’s the issue, unless it becomes government run. Because the government will dictate what doctors get paid, what doctors you can go to, when you can see them and why…and they will set up barriers that will intentionally prevent you from going to one if some bureaucrat looks at his chart on the computer and says that you have to live with crooked teeth, as in the UK…which, after 60 some years they finally realized is bad for its citizens.

    I won’t live 60 years for a bureaucracy to make a decision like that. Remember the catch phrase, “get a second opinon”? That whole concept will be GEE Oh En EE GONE. Doctor X who doesn’t like doing that procedure says you don’t need it, thus you have to let your hair fall out when it would have been prevented if doctor Y saw you instead. But doctor Y isn’t in your available travel distance so…no soup for you.

    Having had very bad experiences with the government over 40+ years, I do not trust the government to administer anything that affects my life. It is bad to me on the very face of it. Government can do some good things…but there has to be unlimited money and there has to be smart people doing their jobs. But even that is not a guarantee, which brings me to the life issue.

    There are no guarantees. You can do everything right. Eat right, get plenty of exercise, not smoke or drink and still die at 25. I sometimes think that our own government believes they can simply change the human condition by throwing money at it. However, to counter that, in the 40′s kids getting vaccinated reduced the numbers of killer childhood diseases by 98% by 1960. That is definitely a good thing. But it was done without it being shoved down anyone’s throat. And if you could not afford the vaccination, they were given free at clinics all across the nation.. It was relatively inexpensive.

    I do not believe, though that it can work with so many variables with soe many millions of people. My mom worked for a doctor for many years and he told me something very interesting once. Something he repeated that he learned while a resident, that “each and every patient is an individual case. They may have a problem that is textbook but seldom is it a textbook problem.”

    In other words each person deals with their health in a different way. They want the doctor to understand them, have a relationship with them and be cared for and about. I think nationalized healthcare will eliminate that. While in the USAF I saw so many doctors and over half of them couldn’t give a damn that I had the flu or a 102 degree fever. They were often cold, disinterested and even said smart-ass things to me. Not that I was sickly. Nor a complainer, nor a hypochondriac. It takes a national movement to get me to go see a doctor if I am sick. Not that I’m the macho man, but I find unnecessary trips to the doc take valuable time away from others.

    And with socialized healthcare…the ER’s and doctor’s offices will fill up with people with sniffles and sprained wrists. Ask Canada. Ask Great Britain. Ask any nation with nationalized healthcare. And yet, we as a nation have the arrogance to believe that we can “do” socialism better than anyone else can? There are only so many ways a government can work and our 230 year old experiment, though not perfect, allows for innovation because of the capitalist system. You notice that China is breaking out, buying cars, building houses? And they’re doing it on US dollars that we just borrowed back to throw at Barry’s cronies in payback for winning the election.

    And no, I’m not saying the republicans are or were any better. I don’t care who is lying to me…I want them to stop it. I can handle the truth. But they play that game of treating us, the citizens like we are idiots. Sadly sometimes I have to agree when I know that socialized medicine cannot be paid for without a seriously higher tax. I am not for that tax. I have reached a comfort zone at the bottom of the middle-class and I do not want to be taxed back to worrying about paying the rent and for food and gas, etc. I have a college education that I paid for myself at a very prestigious college and I served my nation.

    Although I believe there are many who have paid more dues than I, I also believe that there are too many of those who believe as you do that they are entitled to it all. And these past six months have shown it. People cannot pay their mortgages? They have to leave…unless ACORN thugs have anything to say about it. They think they are entitled to a house, a car, food, water, medicine and so on.

    Not so, say I. I am not that person. When I was late for work, I got told about it. When I made a mistake, I was punished. When I couldn’t pay the storage fee for a boat I had, because I lost my job, I ran out of options and they took the boat. That’s the way it goes. Was I happy about it? No. But I had made the agreement that that’s what would happen if I couldn’t pay.

    Life has rules. Rules have consequences. The time to find out about them is not when you’re 17 and in a holding cell for shooting a cop.

    Well, diatribe is over. I’ve said enough. I hope you realize that what you wish for, though a good idea…is a bad plan. It will be so poorly run that like every other nation, rationing will be a matter of fact, not speculation.

    If you smoke, they will deny you care.

    If you’re fat, they will deny you care

    If you don’t exercise, they will deny you care.

    The end result of any bureaucracy is to extend the life of that system and aggravate the inefficiency that it was originally intended to eliminate.

    • proreason

      “President Barry talks obsequiously about his “plan” ”

      It’s an Alinsky trick.

      As you say, Rusty, there is a written plan that we all can see. But the Moron never acknowledges that plan, or anything else in writing.

      Therefore, HIS plan can be anything he wants it to be. And he changes it continuously, often in direct opposition to something he said days before.

      But as a Harvard trained lawyer who has received intense training and practiced for 20+ years to say things that can later be denied or maniupulated, he is a master at playing a dozen sides of the same issue at all times.

      His only significant skill is lieing.

  58. Judex

    Holy cow. Congratulations to most of you posting here. No wonder the rest of the world thinks this country is chocked full of imbeciles.

    I was researching the similarities between the Bush Administration and the rise of Nazi Germany and one of my searches landed me here. What an amazing bunch of hypocritical morons. Where were you people when the “Patriot” Act was passed? An overt law that rapes our civil liberties and is at its core about governmental control over the population and not a peep from any of you, but now you supersleuths have your magnifying glasses out for a health care bill? Amazing. Why aren’t you all down at your local motor vehicle offices burning them to the ground for making you have a license. Isn’t Big Brother watching you there?

    This is the most selfish country on the face of the Earth. Fox News tells you that those darkies over the water are out to get us and you will happily spend trillions to bomb third world countries into oblivion, but god forbid we make health care available to all of our own people.

    • electionhangovervictim

      Judex, speaking of hypocritical morons, did you bother looking up the similarities between Obama and Hitler?

    • proreason

      Hey Judex.

      “This is the most selfish country on the face of the Earth”

      How’s that Hopenchange working out for ya?

      Are you one of the 3 million people who’ve lost their jobs since the Moron siezed power?

      How’s that quadrupled National Debt making ya feel?

      Enjoying spying on your neighbors? Waiting on us to pay for your medical costs or are you just stiffing the doctors to pay for your recreational drugs?

      Did ja collect your $4500 walkin around money yet? Hey, howsabout the mega tax cut w-4 adjustment (same thing, right?).

      Welcome to our forum, where we are all enjoying the same new country your guy is building for us. Personally, I can’t make my mind up between Soviet Russia, Cuba, and East Germany. They’re all so dreamy!!!

    • Steve

      “This is the most selfish country on the face of the Earth.”

      It’s quite a shock, but you don’t seem to know what you are talking about:

      As a people, Americans giving more of themselves – The Globe and Mail
      http://www.theglobeandmail.com.....le1218657/

    • Rusty Shackleford

      And….if you do a little research, you will find that the largest contributors are conservatives. Compared to liberals, conservatives give an average of 30% more to charities.

      But don’t believe me, believe your own liberal mainstream media : http://abcnews.go.com/2020/sto.....038;page=1

      Bill O’Reilly also noted this but there’s no way you’d take his word for it.

      You see, rich liberals are of the mind that it’s the government’s responsibility to lift the poverty-stricken up out of the muck and mire, while conservatives believe it is up to the individual. Time after time, the conservatives have been proven correct. Free housing? They destroy it and within a few years, it has to be torn down. And, when you give money to the poor, they buy things like drugs, guns, non-essentials.

      Americans are not selfish. Although we do like to protect that which we own and call ours. That’s not selfish; That’s just wise.

      I think, Judex, that you are lashing out at a target you can’t quite identify. I don’t know what your problem is, but your anger is very apparent. The ad-hominem attacks are pointless and don’t get anybody anywhere. If you say things, it’s best to provide some sort of reference to back up your claim. That way a discussion can occur and both sides can present their case. However, I suspect that you are more emotionally driven than anything else and cannot be bothered to cite references.

      And, I’ve never heard anyone refer to “darkies” on national TV and I’m curious where you got that from. I’m really not clear what you were getting at with that statement. Please explain.

      As for the Patriot Act, it was far less invasive than many things this new administration has done this year however, to assume that nobody here was upset about it is to lay your ignorance open. Many people didn’t like the idea. I don’t like the idea that my internet activities and phone conversations are monitored and it does seem to smack of something sinister. Although, having much military experience, I know how hard it is to gain intelligence on the enemy at times.

      However, to counter your point as to its existence, a very strong majority of the United States was demanding that “something be done” to avenge the murdered on Sept 11. Knee-jerk reactions are seldom good. It may have been a bad idea to monitor private activities like that but, as was brought to my attention, the constitution says absolutely nothing about “the right to privacy”. Not—–A——Word.

      As for bombing third world countries into oblivion, it was liberal democrats who bloviated, often for several portions of an hour, about the “need to attack Iraq”. Hillary Clinton is among the valedictorians for one of those speeches.

      http://crooksandliars.com/2008.....ugh-attack

      Nobody here considers themselves a “supersleuth”. Personally, I’m an average guy with an average job trying to make sense of what the government is trying to do. I do tend to trust my instincts and though I’m no fan of any politicians, I am especially not a fan of the current assemblage thereof. It’s a dirty business and involves the less-savory aspects of humanity; The back-door deals, the secrets, the infidelity to truth….it all bugs me no end.

      But never have I, in my life, seen such an obvious grab for power, complete disregard to the people, unwillingness to listen, and on the opposite side of that coin, the efforts made to marginalize and even out-and-out display such lack of class by insulting the people who disagree, or the media personalities that go chapter and verse over the elements of why they are bad.

      Name-calling, race-baiting….it’s all there.

      Judex, take a deep breath, think and try to put together a coherent, factual argument instead of pointing both barrels of your emotion here and pulling the trigger. You’d be surprised that we are very capable of disagreeing with you in a very civil fashion. If you go to ANY liberal blog, you will read F*** YOU! and YOU A***HOLE! over and over. And that’s some of the tamer comments. Your first post here reads like a spoiled brat who had someone knock his ice cream over.

      Personally, I do not welcome you here, but I’ll read what you have to say. That’s only fair.

      cheers

      RS

    • Petronius

      “Where were you people when the ‘Patriot’ Act was passed? An overt [sic] law that rapes our civil liberties and is at its core about governmental control over the population….”

      Gosh, Judex, I can’t recall a single innocent individual who was a victim of the Patriot Act. Perhaps there was one, but if so I believe I might have heard about him. In spades. And the Patriot Act was––as you say––overt; it was the result of the formal legislative process, and not the type of sub rosa action that we see almost daily by the Obama White House.

      The targeting of ordinary, apolitical, private citizens by the Obama Administration is the essence of tyranny. The investigations and demonizations of Joe the Plumber, Rick Santelli, AIG executives, bankers, Carrie Prejean, Sgt. Jim Crowley and the Cambridge police force, Chrysler bondholders, hedge fund managers, citizens and resident aliens with foreign bank accounts, Napolitano’s “terrorists” list (veterans, Ron Paul supporters, pro-lifers, et al.), of the bitter clingers, of those who live by their own work, of the wealthy, of Christians, tea party participants, and most recently the attendees at town hall meetings such as Katy Abram.

      Legislating with a sledge hammer. The arrogance, the thinly veiled threats, the Bolshevik-style thuggery, the no-opposition-will-be-tolerated and in-your-face conqueror aspect of this Administration has to be seen as something entirely novel in the American experience.

    • pdsand

      “Fox News tells you that those darkies over the water are out to get us and you will happily spend trillions to bomb third world countries into oblivion, but god forbid we make health care available to all of our own people.”

      They could be darkies or they could be Scottish, if they were out to get us I would happily spend trillions to bomb them into oblivion.
      And yes, god forbid we make socialized medicine available to all of our own people. Our people already have health care, they just don’t all have health insurance. And to the extent that that’s a “problem”, it could be solved by many different means than the public option, which will kill the private option. The good man from Whole Foods listed them perfectly.

      “No wonder the rest of the world thinks this country is chocked full of imbeciles.”

      Au contraire, I just read this long and well-reasoned thread for the first time. With a few exceptions, mostly related to proreason, this has been a very intelligent and civilized discussion. (Just kidding pro, you know you’re the man)

      “An overt law that rapes our civil liberties”

      The only people who’s civil liberties get raped by the patriot act are terrorists. But that’s a problem with liberals because for some reason they earnestly believe the crime and punishment portions of the bill of rights constitute a right to commit crime. This is simply wrong, and in the case of terrorism, the government should have the right to step in and stop the crime before it’s committed.

      “This is the most selfish country on the face of the Earth.”

      This comment follows the age old liberal fallacy that we should take money away from legitimate government pursuits such as national defense and law enforcement and spend it on social programs. Peace dividend, Jesus would raise your taxes, 1% of the population, X% of the world’s defense spending, we’ve heard it all a hundred times, and I count myself as fortunate to be around a group of people here who haven’t bought it yet. The socialists never seem to understand that it’s because of historical capitalism in this country that we have anything to be “selfish” about. Well, rather, they do understand that and it’s exactly what they want to put an end to.

      “Why aren’t you all down at your local motor vehicle offices burning them to the ground for making you have a license. Isn’t Big Brother watching you there?”

      On the face of it a license to drive is wrong because it follows the historical liberal fallacy that technology invented after the founding is exempt from the “individual liberties” contained therein, because “the founders couldn’t have conceived of airplanes and automobiles when they wrote the constitution”. Therefore all technology invented since the founding has been subjected to extensive federal and state regulation which is plain wrong. However, a license to drive on its own isn’t particularly outrageous to my sense of civil liberties, as its ability to keep a driving record of a lunatic driver and suspend their driving priviledges keeps a lot of us safe on the road. At a certain extent I’d rather be alive than worry about something so small. However, on a sliding scale it gets more outrageous the more that a driver’s license is required when dealing with the government in things that don’t have anything to do with driving. I’ll speak out when somebody requires my license to buy tobacco, because I haven’t looked 18 in quite some time. But our friendly government perpetually raises the requirements, ‘look less than 25, 35, 40 years old, we require I.D.’. Or for instance the man in Utah? that was arrested simply because he refused to provide I.D. a few years ago when the cop pulled him over. That was an outrage. So yes, the driver’s license can easily go from being a necessary evil to something that can get way out of hand the more it is used for unrelated purposes. However, we as conservatives believe in reason, logic and debate, and will get together to change policies we disagree with, rather than simply bombing the DMV. We’re no weather underground here.

  59. wirenut

    Somebody’s secret sixties party just crawled out of the video game parlor of their parents basement.
    Welcome, Judex ! Care to elaborate? Selfish? Yes, YOU are. Talk to me.

  60. 12 Gauge Rage

    Judex, while I will say that our country is far from perfect I’d still rather live here than anywhere else. But I say this not because I’m being overly nationalistic. I have no problem with taking pride in my country just as I would have no problem in someone else taking pride in the country they’re from.

    It’s so easy to say Americans are the most selfish, arrogant people in the world but I disagree. I find that sort of behavior not the result of someone’s nationality but rather just basic human nature. There are those who would do anything to help their fellow man. Even a total stranger. And there are some people who are rotten to the core and care for no one else but themselves. There are many fellow Americans who do great charitable work but are never heard of because they’d rather do their anonymously. To them that’s their reward.

    By and far Americans give more generously than other nations but for some reason all we get is animosity and spitefulness in return. A good example is the tsunami that hit Indonesia several years ago. The Muslim world was shamed that they had not given as much as aid as the U.S. had. There was no ulterior motive on our part other than that some of us felt that aid was the right and humane thing to do.

    As for our former president being a Nazi? Please. The fact that you’re still alive to see the next morning proves you wrong. Hitler tolerated no dissent. If you mouthed off to Der Fuhrer the Gestapo came for you and that was it. You either died of a 9mm hemorrhage behind the head or got turned into a bar of soap. We’re not all narrow minded zealots here. It’s just that some of us rant a little louder than others and creates that impression.

    For the most part I just make cynical comments here. But others on this site are more well versed. So if you plan on making outlandish claims then you better do your homework and have some facts to back up your posts because the others are going to demand proof.

    P.S. I’m not a bunker mentality American. I have traveled and lived in other parts of the world. Including Muslim countries.

  61. mpauline

    Almost everyone who voted for the nazis was a Conservative Christian. Hitler got the most votes from rural Protestants.

    The central and overriding goal of the nazis was to make Germany an all – white, all – aryan country, by murder and expulsion of most minorities. In a nazi America Obama could not even be a citizen, let alone be elected President.

    National Socialists were right wing, but they were collectivists. They drew on and and intensified respect for traditional sources of authority, and traditional prejudices. They portrayed Jesus and Martin Luther as aryans and national heroes. They had cozy relationships with big industrial companies. They were extreme patriots. They saw war as bringing positive change. They believe that the chief executive should operate with maximum autonomy and secrecy.

    • proreason

      Here are a few of the tactics already executed by our government wannabe nazis that parallel what the German Nazis did:

      - attempts to suppress free speech
      - encouraging reports of dissent
      - thug tactics to break up dissenters
      - abuse of the law to free “good” thugs when their actions are clearly illegal
      - formation of semi-official “police” organizations
      - sanction of propaganda at the highest level of the political structure
      - witch hunts.
      - calls for show trials
      - refusal to listen to reasonable debate
      - shouting down of opposition
      - rush to pass legislation
      - creation of false crises
      - demonization of groups of people
      - declaration of mandates when none exist
      - facist takeovers of private businesses
      - refusal to recognize established contract law

      The Moron hasn’t roasted anybody yet that we know of. And his Cabal hasn’t approached Hitler’s in the extremity of their actions, yet.

      But other than the emphasis on the military, the parallels are astonishing.

      Call the Nationalist Socialist party “conservative” if you like. Liberals love to redefine words for use as propaganda devices. But here are the key factors in the Obamastration / Nazi comparison:

      - Economic policies – Obamazis and Nazis are virtually identical (government takeovers, facism, ignoring legal precedents, massive government spending, etc. etc.)
      - Legal – conservatives’ emphasis on the Constitution is diametrically opposed to National Socialism. The Obamazis “roll your own” legalism is the same approach the Nazis used.
      - Social Policy – the parallels between the Obamazis and Nazis are legion: devaluation of life, control of the population, demonization of selected populations, stem cell research is parallel to Nazi genetic engineering, etc., etc.
      - Foreign Policy – neither conservatives nor liberals in this country are anything like the Nazis in this regard, including usage of the military

      It’s as clear as can be that the Obama administration is very much like the Nazis, just not as extreme and deadly, yet.

      But nobody will say it because the country is already afraid of the thugs.

  62. mpauline

    What about race? Don’t you think race was an issue in the nazi party? Do you think Hitler could have had an African father and led the nazi party?

    Look, in essence you are saying that blinding light and pitch dark are the same because you can’t see in either one. Fascists and liberal Democrats are opposites, but they both believe in working together, so you see them as the same.

    This is not a redefinition of anything. Political science has included fascism as extreme Conservatism since there was fascism.

    Most of your lengthy list above is stuff (propaganda, hypocrisy, etc.) are things that every White House administration has done, and that includes the ones who declared war on Hitler and put down nazism once and for all.

    • proreason

      Yeh, race was a big issue with the Nazis, just like it is for Obama and the other liberal haters. And race isn’t a big deal for modern-day conservatives. We are past it. That’s why Bush used so many qualified minorities in his Cabinet. That’s why Bush Sr put Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court.

      “in essence you are saying that blinding light and pitch dark ” Oh. I see. Well, I’m convinced then.

      “Most of your lengthy list above is stuff (propaganda, hypocrisy, etc.) are things that every White House administration has done” Not just wrong. Stupidly, wildly wrong. Libwits big complaints against Bush are the Patriot Act and Iraq. Both of those passed Congress with overwhelming bi-partisan majorities. Only adolescents compare them to what Obamy is doing.

      “Political science has included fascism as extreme Conservatism since there was fascism.” Liberals love word games, don’t you. And how has what I’ve written convinced you that I would care what “polical science”, which is dominated by Leftists, “has included”.

      Let’s boil it way far down so you can understand.

      Modern-day conservatives are fanatics about the Constitution. We don’t want ANY big changes to the greatest country ever. We are fiscally cautious. We are socially cautious. We beleive that if something ain’t broke, don’t fix it. And we know this country ain’t broke.

      None of that, and none of what modern-day conservatives believe, maps to National Socialism in any way.

      Modern-day liberals are fanatics about transforming the country. They want massive social, economic and political change. They want to control every aspect of the peoples’ lives. They spend like drunken sailors. They are essentially libertarians about social issues. Anything goes, including many criminal behaviours. They love to tinker with everything in a 300 million-person country. Damn the torpedos. They think everything in the U.S. is broke.

      All of that, and everything modern-day liberals believe (with the exception of foreign/military policy), maps to National Socialism in every way.

  63. BannedbytheTaliban

    And communist/Bolsheviks are extreme liberals; another group who also used the same tactics to enslave the peoples and promote the “party” (not to mention all the death camps and such under Lenin and Stalin). If you look at the topic of this article, it was to draw similarties to the fact that Obama has his own symbol, his own stamp of approval so to speak, a similar tactic used by the Nazi in the swastika. It doesn’t matter what political philosophy to which you subscribe, it is the extremist of any group, whether they be conservative, liberal, Christian, Muslim, etc. that are the problem. And no matter from what angle you view it, this administration is taking an extremist stance on several issues, some innumerate above by ProReason.

    • mpauline

      That’s right, Stalinists were extreme liberals.

      I don’t agree that the Obama administration is taking extreme stances. Providing medical treatment to everyone in your country who needs it is something that every Democracy around the world has done because it is just basic decency. The bailout of banking was the policy of the Bush admin. and had bipartisan support. Cap and trade on carbon emissions is a way to incentivize the free market to find solutions to global warming. If Obama was an extremist he would slap on big regulations on coal burning plants or nationalize them outright. That’s extremism.

      Modern day liberals question traditional prejudices and seats of power. we question the government, the church, the police, the military, the father of the family, the capitalists, the sexists, the racists, the homophobes, etc. This active questioning of power, and making all sources of power answer to the people, is what the founding fathers hoped to accomplish when they set forth the United States of America. Nazism was about absolute power embodied in a supreme leader, and the people’s role in that system was absolute obedience. Questioning was not tolerated. And, above all, nazism was about the aggrandizement of white aryan men as the highest type of person and the only just leaders. Does that map in every way to liberal Democrats?

      And, Proreason, you may have no interest in political science, but the definition of fascism is that it is extreme conservatism. If you want to redefine it, then you are playing the word games.

    • proreason

      “Providing medical treatment to everyone in your country who needs it is something that every Democracy around the world has done because it is just basic decency.”

      we already do it

      “The bailout of banking was the policy of the Bush admin” Yeh, upon the URGENT recommentation of Paulsen and Bernake, noted Democrats who he had appointed because he was bipartisan, and with the approval of a higher percentage of Dems than Republics.

      “Cap and trade on carbon emissions is a way to incentivize the free market to find solutions to global warming”. Global Warming is a myth. The weather has changed for 4 billion years. Man’s impact is minimal.

      “If Obama was an extremist he would slap on big regulations on coal burning plants or nationalize them outright.” uuuh. No need to slap big regulation on coal burning plants when you intend to drive them out of business with Cap and Tax.

      “Modern day liberals question traditional prejudices and seats of power. we question the government” Are you kidding? Moder day liberal love big government. To dispute it is absurd.

      “the racists,” you are the racists

      “Nazism was about absolute power embodied in a supreme leader” Another parallel between The Moron and Hitler. Thanks for that one.

      “Questioning was not tolerated.” Like mayber, demonizing protestors at Town Hall meetings, holding Town Hall meetings in Union Halls, beating up granpa’s who disagree with you, demonizing talk radio, demonizing Fox News, appointing a czar to shut down talk radio, calling demonstrators nazis and extremists, etc. etc.

      “And, above all, nazism was about the aggrandizement of white aryan men as the highest type of person and the only just leaders. Does that map in every way to liberal Democrats?” No, but aggrandizement of non-white men maps perfectly to liberal Democrats.

    • proreason

      Merriam-Webster online definition of Fascism:

      ” a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition”

      Like I said, in every respect except exalting the nation, liberal democrats are Fascists.

      And when you throw in the dictatorial socialism of National Socialism, the mapping to the Nazis is frightening.

      Who exalts race about the individual? Liberals. Rev Wright, AG Holder, Obama, Al Sharpton, every other liberal.

      Who stands for a centralized autocratic government? Liberals. no time to read bills. massive spending, massive bureaucracies. what is the Death Scare all about?

      Who is headed by a dictatorial leader? Obamy liberals. He “won”. Forming his own little armies. Stike back with twice the force. Doesn’t care what Republicans think. Many liberals already saying the will vote for Death Scare, no matter what their constituents think

      Who wants severe economic regimentation? Liberals. Regulate, regulate, regulate. Takeover as much of the economy as possible

      Who wants social regimentation? Liberals. Propaganda in the schools. Propaganda in the msm. 2 minutes of hate per day. Demonize everyone who disagrees. Destroy churches and families so the State can control everything. etc.etc.etc.

      Who forcibly suppresses opposition? Obamy liberals. Union Thugs. Chicago Way. Demonization of all opposition. Shutting off the mike. Closing down the meetings. Obamy’s brownshirts. Acorn. SEIU. Overule Contract Law. etc.etc.etc.

    • BannedbytheTaliban

      First let me clarify something for many people in the opposition. We do not think people should be denied health care, and currently they are not. We think, as you say about cap and trade, there are free market solutions to solve the health insurance gap without growing the size of the federal government, the control over our lives, and the size of the deficit. Many good ideas were given by the Whole Foods founder….

      When you look at the “motives” for Obama’s plans you would be correct that they do not seem extreme. There is a nice glossy veneer about them. However, it is the goals of these programs that are extreme. Here is what we see:

      1. Health care “reform” will create a program that will force employers to give up their coverage and boot people to the public option. It will out-compete insurance companies because they can set prices and operate for a loss. This will slowly convert more and more people to the public option as insurance companies go under and it is more profitable for companies to make insurance the government’s problem. This will eventually result in a single payer system and nationalization of health care which we believe is not adequate, not constitutional, and will stifle freedom.

      2. Cap and Trade. This bill is a similar approach to nationalize the energy sector. Even the environmentalist say it will have little effect on CO2 emissions as it doesn’t stop CO2 from being produced, it only makes it more expensive. These costs will be pushed onto customers. Then people will not be able to pay for electricity, heating, and goods and services and the unwashed masses will demand the government intervene. And they will so humbly do, as Obama has no interest in running the energy sector, just as he has not interest in running a car company he is still running.

      3. Big regulations on coal are coming. He already said he would bankrupt any company that wants to run coal fired plants.

      4. I’m glad you question power and you should. However, once the government takes over something, you can question all you would like; there will be no way to remove the government once a bureaucracy has been created. That is why we don’t want to expand the government any more that it has. And once there is no recourse, there is no consequence, there are no people to answer to, and you have a dictatorship. And you can easily create one by sliding down the slippery slope of liberal idealism.

      5. And to your comments about race. I’m going to make an arse of myself and assume you assume we are all white bible thumping males here since you keep saying that is the MO for Nazis. The truth is we are all not of that persuasion. And even if we were, the lack of diversity doesn’t in any way diminish the veracity of our logic or in anyway make your arguments more superior because you are “inclusive.” The fact is people who are politically active, regardless of persuasion, group into like minded individuals to the exclusion of others. I’m sure you find it perfectly acceptable that 95% of blacks favor Obama without ever questioning, when has 95% of any group ever agreed on something?

  64. mpauline

    Liberal Democrats and nazis are opposites in philosophy. The first believes in racial inclusion and diversity, the other in extreme racism. Liberals welcome people of all different faiths, races, and sexual orientations. Nazis actively murdered several minorities that they particularly despised.

    Obama himself would have had trouble casting a vote in the American south had it not been for voting rights legislation passed by LBJ – legislation that was opposed by William F. Buckley.

    There are similarities between any two governments – between the junta in Burma and the U.S. – because both charge income tax and both have customs agents. Merely pointing out such similarities doesn’t demonstrate any meaningful similarity.

    The real point here is that you guys who are calling this a nazi administration are merely saying it because you dislike the President. When President Bush’s administration tapped your phones, it didn’t bother you. Your belief in personal liberty didn’t drive you to oppose Bush on that. When the Bush administration paid tax subsidies to corn producers, you didn’t complain that he was tampering with the free market. When the Bush Administration got the New York Times to report that Iraq had dangerous weapons of mass destruction, you didn’t complain about freedom of the press. You only complain now because you lost the election and you want to believe that the President is illegitimate any way you can.

    The President is not a nazi. Liberal Democracy does not map to nazism, and that is a weird way to use map as a verb. Conservatives like Teddy Roosevelt wanted to conserve the environment, and current conservatives that hunt ducks would like to preserve a few wetlands, and that does not make them nazis.

    And you don’t get to decide whether human CO2 emissions are changing the climate. Nor do I. To know if they are you have to do thousands of measurements and look at the climate record. The people who did that concluded that the millions of tons of CO2 we release every day are changing the climate. If you just insist that 2+2=5 no matter what, then I don’t know what I can do to help you correct your mistake.

    • proreason

      “When the Bush Administration got the New York Times to report that Iraq had dangerous weapons of mass destruction”

      Slap head.

      I get it now. You are a deranged frothing-at-the-mouth loon. Your decent writing skills had me fooled into thinking you had a brain.

      Just for the record, when Bush “got the New York Times” to report about dangerous weapons, he also managed to hoodwink Congress, our military, the CIA and every Intelligence Agencies and all the political leaders of every Western country on earth into believing the same thing. Maybe Bush wasn’t such a dunce after all.

  65. mpauline

    By the way, I am not saying that American Conservatives are nazis. The new trends in Conservative thought seem to be less racist, much more about individual liberty and responsibility, and about smaller government.

    I would merely ask you to be consistent and stand up for your principles. If you oppose government tyranny, then oppose it when the Bush Administration held people indefinitely without trial also. If you want smaller government, then oppose the increases in government spending under president Bush. Why wasn’t the Bush Administration’s prescription coverage plan a nazi program, didn’t that “map” the way Obamacare does?

    It’s because President Bush was your man, right?

  66. electionhangovervictim

    mpauline,
    I applaud your ability to tactfully debate this issue. From what I’ve seen, most liberals equate debating a topic with throwing personal insults in someone’s face. Your maturity is refreshing.
    Unfortunately, it’s not going to change the fact that our far left government is running our country into the ground.

    “Liberals welcome people of all different faiths, races, and sexual orientations.” Guess what…so do we. The difference is that liberals don’t just “welcome” diversity, they bend over backwards to accomodate it! Conservatives welcome diversity too, but unlike liberals we don’t think it’s necessary to eradicate principles this country was founded on in order to be accepting of all. We think that if you want to live here, then you need to learn to speak English, be respectful of our Christian beliefs (not that you have to be a Christian, just be respectful of the fact that this country was founded by Christians), and pay your taxes just like we do.

    “And you don’t get to decide whether human CO2 emissions are changing the climate. Nor do I.”
    Let’s just say for argument’s sake that you’re right about climate change and that we need to do something to hinder CO2 emissions. Even if this is true, then cap and trade is not going to achieve it’s intended result. The only thing it’s going to achieve is higher consumer costs and higher unemployment, with zero affect on the climate. Economically, companies with U.S. plants will be forced to move their operations overseas and guess where they’ll go…to countries that have no regulations on CO2 emissions. We can’t force other countries to pass such laws, so here we would sit, in the ever growing unemployment lines, watching the cost of our groceries skyrocket, while we bask in the glow of the CO2 emissions pouring out of the factories in countries that could care less about “global warming”.

  67. proreason

    “when the Bush Administration held people enemy combatants in civilian clothes who hid behind women and sent children into civilian populations with bombs strapped on their backs indefinitely without trial also”

    fixed a word for ya, mp

  68. mpauline

    I just don’t see the Obama Administration as extremist. Hugo Chavez is a left – wing extremist, he’s nationalizing whole industries. Obama could almost be faulted for trying to make everyone happy.

    Moderate politics in America are pretty conservative – every politician wants economic growth, a balanced budget, lower taxes on the middle class, etc. Every President wants to see every industry making money, housing prices going up, kids going to college, and a well supplied military. So if Obama does something center – left, like try to help people get medical treatments in an affordable way, then his opponents exaggerate and call him a nazi.

    I can make my point more quickly, I bet, if I described what an extremist left wing president might do.

    An extreme left – wing President could use the killling of Dr. George Tiller to declare that there was a huge pro – life domestic terrorist conspiracy. He could declare that all pro – life organizations are terrorist groups, and imprison any members of those organizations, including Republican Senators, Representatives, Governors, etc., indefinitely and without trial, access to lawyers, or even to their own families. These detainees could be subjected to “enhanced interrogation” to see what they know about any planned terrorist attacks on other abortion providers.

    All of these powers were given to the President in the last administration, and I heard a few conservatives wisely caution that any powers you give to president Bush you give to a President Hillary in the future. Hitler himself invoked emergency powers after a suspicious terrorist event in Berlin to seize absolute power and leave his coalition government behind. If Obama is a maniacal nazi, as you say, then we should all predict that he will do what I just wrote. That is what an extremist left – wing president would do.

    But I bet he won’t.

    So, if I were you, I wouldn’t play the nazi card over a little bit of insurance company business. You’ll be the boys who cried wolf if any nazi tactics ever really do happen.

    • proreason

      Well I don’t think Hugo Chavez is extreme either.

      Hugo has a ways to go before he kills the tens of millions that Stalin, Lenin, Mao and Hitler killed.

      So you are probably right.

      Nationalizing the auto, banking, and health care industries isn’t really extreme at all. Quadrupling the deficit in 6 months is actually benevolent. Accusing doctors of getting rich on tonsilectomies is middle-of-the road. Calling the grannies that oppose you Nazis, white supremicists, racists, mobs, extremists, and industry tools is just another way of saying hello. Lying about every single detail of your plans and background is just a nuanced way of doing what is best for the your victims.

      It’s all relative, isn’t it.

  69. mpauline

    And yes, Proreason, the NYTimes did report false information that helped make the case for the war with Iraq. Judith Miller was getting information from Scooter Libby and Ahmed Chalabi and other White House sources and publishing it as coming from anonymous sources. She also reported that WMDs had been found in Iraq during the war, which also proved false. She retired from the Times after editors there criticized ten of her stories for uncritical reporting.

    So, although Conservatives often criticize the mainstream media for being biased to the left, here is a case where the liberal rats at the NYtimes were taking tips straight from the Republican White House and making the Bush Administration’s case for war.

  70. mpauline

    Nobody made the auto companies ask for bailouts. They all went to Washington and asked for bailouts themselves. Is that nationalization?

    The only people who got called nazis were people holding swatikas at town hall meetings, and Obama, by Rush Limbaugh.

    You say the Obama is lying about every single detail of his plans. How do you know? Have you been reading his diary? I ask because this is an important point. You are inclined to believe only negative things about Obama – that he is lying about every detail of all his plans. When he has changed his story hasn’t it always been more to your liking? When he said on teh campaign trail that he would get trials for all Guantanamo detainees, then later said that few can’t have them, that was more to your liking, wasn’t it? So you should be glad that he is lying and that his real plans are far less left – wing than the ones he got elected for saying.

    • proreason

      “Is that nationalization?”

      Of course. What else could you call it. Doesn’t matter whether the compaines were intimidated into pretending they wanted it or not. We saw that with the Nazis as well. Another parallel. There were plenty of alternatives to Government Motors. The one people who aren’t Socialist/Facists preferred was bankruptcy.

      “Have I been reading his diary”

      God no. I’ve been reading his lies in the media. Listening to him makes me quesy. He REALLY needs to cut back on the smoking. His sychophants are all hypnotized now. He needs to give up on the sonorous baritone that fooled the marks and start saving his life.

      The parts of “his story” that bother me the most, btw, are the interminable trail of radical associates. I expect all politicians to lie about policy, so that doesn’t shock me (although I am surprised by the brazenness of it all), but when a person lies about every detail of their personal life, it’s a clear indication of mental illness.

      I never thought we would have a professional con man as president. Still can’t believe it.

      Who do you think trained him, mp?

  71. mpauline

    But how do you know that what he’s saying in the media about his own plans are lies? Are you reading his mind to get his true intentions?

    OK, so the CEOs of GM and Chrysler are Socialist/Fascists because they didn’t file for bankruptcy?

    • proreason

      “OK, so the CEOs of GM and Chrysler are Socialist/Fascists because they didn’t file for bankruptcy?”

      yes. What else could they be?

      “how do you know that what he’s saying in the media about his own plans are lies?”

      Well, the 10,000 YouTube videos showing him lying are one clue. Here’s on where he tells Planned Parenthood in 2007 that abortion is “essential” and a “centerpiece” of his Health Care plan.

      http://hotair.com/archives/200.....care-plan/

      But guess what? I know you got it right!!!! Now he’s saying that abortion isn’t in “his plan” in any way. But you aren’t surprised. The thing you like the most about him is that he is willing to lie about anything. That way, you get what you want while he tricks some people who love their country but aren’t used to dealing with con artists into supporting him.

      The second clue is that he ran as a “moderate” (lol), and now is governing (stretching the definition) as a Fascist / Socialist. I prefer the term Fascist because one can be a Socialist without bullying (as the Europeans do it). But The Moron seems to get his jollies by throwing his weight around. (you know, the “weight” that 230 years of our ancestors created by putting in place the most free and tolerant country ever established). Also, he and his capos are obviously incompetant managers. Everything they touch is run into the ground. So they prefer the fascist approach of leaving the day-to-day operations of businesses in the hands of others, while randomly dictating this and that policy to maximize the gutting of the enterprise.

  72. mpauline

    Electionhangovervictim,

    Thank You for your kind words. I admire your tact and clarity also. I almost never get to debate Conservatives, so this has been fun for me. Maybe I’m actually spending too many hours on it today.

    What shows of respect would you expect from non – Christian immigrants? Are you certain that the Constitution would permit you to demand that immigrants acknowledge Christianity as the founding religion of the US? What steps would you take to make sure that Christainity receives this respect and that other religions do not?

    I don’t know, do liberals bend over backwards to accomodate diversity? Or are we just comfortable in acknowledging that the US has always been taking on immigrants speaking Chinese, Italian, Gaelic, German, Hungarian, Greek, Spanish, and every other language? Sometimes it isn’t the grandparents who will learn good english, sometimes it’s the next generation. That fact does’t bother me at all. Does it get to you?

  73. mpauline

    Alright, Proreason. You’re on record here calling Rick Wagoner, Frederick Henderson, and Robert Nardelli “Socialist/Fascists”.

    • proreason

      oh, oh

      are you going to report me?

      I don’t want to lose my chance for a $40,000 Volt. If I can get one of those jobs agitating for the Health Scare at Townhall meetings for $16 and hour, and if Ms. Reason can finally qualify for SSI, and if I can collect my $4500 walking around money, and my $200 back-to-school stipend, and my tax credits, and my mortgage money, and my rock-bottom gubamint assured Credit Card interest rates, and my food stamps, and a few of my lawsuits come through…..I should be able to get one in 2032, if Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid don’t go backrupt.

      Oh no. Heartache. I just learned that Volt won’t get 230 mpg. It will get 230 miles per CHARGEUP.

      Gol darnit. The Gubamint needs to make ObamyMotors stop those misleading ad campaigns. Oh wait……

  74. mpauline

    Yep. I’ll report you to Rush Limbaugh. Does Rush agree that all the bankers and business executives who asked for bailouts are secretly commies/nazis? Does the Republican Party agree with you on that?

    I mean, this is the same Rick Wagoner who fought so valiantly in suing California to make sure his cars could emit as much pollution as he wanted. The Rick Wagoner who, as CFO, Vice President, etc., made all those billions for his shareholders in the 90′s. But you, and only you, have figured out that, of course, he was a Socialist/Fascist all along. He was just biding his time playing along for his entire career as a capitalist until, wham!, he let America have it by revealing that he was part of the Obama conspiracy all along.

    I have not heard Rush say that yet. Nor Michael Steele. That’s a new one.

    • proreason

      Rick Wagoner was fired by the Moron thowing his weight around.

      But I don’t want to upset you.

      I can lie about it if it makes you feel better.

  75. mpauline

    Proreason,

    Why did you write “gubamint”?

    • proreason

      because i’m a racist.

      Couldn’t you tell?

      All of us on S&L are. We eat black babies for breakfast.

      We actually love Obamy’s policies. It’s his 6.25% African blood that we hate.

  76. mpauline

    Proreason,

    Ok, I’m learning a lot about you today.

    Wagoner asked for a bailout. You wrote that he is a Socialist/Fascist for doing so and not declaring bankruptcy. So he and Obama are both S/F’s, so they must have been in cahoots, don’t you think?

    Plus, they must both be morons, unlike you, since they both graduated from Harvard.

    I don’t think so. I think that the Obama Administration, like so many Presidential Administrations before, sent a huge amount of taxpayer money to some huge industries, because that’s how American politics has always worked.

  77. proreason

    “they both graduated from Harvard.”

    That proves they are morons.

    Where are Obama’s Harvard transcripts? I’d like to see them. For that matter, I’d also like to see his Senate records, state Senate records, Annenburg Challenge records, his parent’s marriage certificate, his baptism certificate, his birth certificate, his columbia records, his occidental college records, his travel records, his medical records, and all of the other records he has hidden from the American public.

    Why does he claim to be the first African American Law Review editor when another black man was that 60 years before he was?

    And why does a man who is 6.25% African get called the first “black” law review edittor anyway. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn I have more African blood than that. Of course, I don’t dare look, because as a racist, if I am partially black, I would develop suppressed sexual longings for myself.

    Why did he lie about being a law professor? Why, as a “lecturer in constitutional law”, doesn’t he understand the Constitution?

    Why is he hiding everything about his past mp?

    Why was he over his head in debt 10 years ago even though he and Thunder Butt were both lawyers. Why was he refinancing all the time? Why didn’t he buy a house he could afford? Why did a crook buy him his new mansion?

    Why doesn’t he have any friends? Why is every single one of his acquantances a crook, racist, or terrorist?

    Why can’t he speak a coherent sentence without a teleprompter?

    Why doesn’t he know how many states there are.

    Why is he so shamefully stupid? But he does have a nice smokey voice.

    Who trained him mp? You love him. You must know.

  78. mpauline

    Whoa, Proreason, take a deep breath. You don’t want people to start calling you “Prohysteria” do you? LOL!

    I encourage you to go ahead and do all that research you’ve suggested. Get his diplomas and his parents’ marriage license. I think it would be good for you to get all of that evidence together in a big research project. Maybe you can find documentation that, as you say, he has no friends, too.

    But, before we get too far off the subject, am I correctly stating what you suggested, that Rick Wagoner was secretly a fascist plotting to hand GM over to the government since at least the 90′s?

    • proreason

      “Get his diplomas and his parents’ marriage license”

      They aren’t available.

      Surprised?

      “am I correctly stating what you suggested, that Rick Wagoner was secretly a fascist”

      It isn’t rocket science, mp. Business doesn’t like competition any more than the government does. Every business wants to dominate it’s market. That’s why the partnership between business and fascist governments is so seamless. In Germany in the 30′s, the major industrial companies were willing accomplices with Hitler. Business people at the top levels are essestially apolitical. They bribe whoever they think will win, and/or whoever they think will make them the most wealthy.

      But mp, you seem like a sweetie, but I’m appalled by your ignorance.

      At least read my posts to you. They are packed with information. Rick Wagoner was FIRED BY OBAMY months ago, and replaced by a new puppet CEO. So even though he bent over and waved his butt aluringly in the air to the Fascists, it didn’t help him personally one iota…..and of course we know what it did to GM….a $40,000 go-cart is its new wonder product.

      http://townhall.com/columnists.....and_change

  79. canary

    mpauline, I could tell by the first 2 posts you asked 12 gauage that you were here to antagonize. Go to your library and read Obama’s dreams, and you will see he’s a self-admitted socialist/commie who hates white people, and his hope book he admires Chavez and feels it’s a suitable way to run the country. Also, he’s created, and creating a system far more invasive than the Patriot Act than Bush did, to fight terrorism. Obama wants amnesty for illegals, when there aren’t enough jobs, wants free health care for them, (which they already have), and Obama has done nothing about the patriot act, and he’s a bully, and a habitual chronic liar, white, Israel hater.
    You fail to mention the gestapo invasion tactics like his census plans, and health care that will violate privacy laws, Court Supreme Rulings, and the consitution.
    You see, you, Obama, if wanting a country different than America, then you should go live there, not try and bring America down to other countries levels. Sooo much of what you say is b.s.. Hitler persecuted the Christians too, by the way. I just don’t comprehend people like Obama who took off his American pen, his friend Bill Ayers that bombed out country and stepped on flag, even living in this country. It’s rediculous for you expect everyone in the country should agree with you and Obama, so maybe puffington post, you’d be happier there. Why get on boards where you don’t agree with, and wish to change. Go, to another tribe that suits your happieness.

  80. proreason

    The merger of corporate and government powers in modern America is plain and simple fascism, believes Gerald Celente, the founder of the Trends Research Institute and publisher of Trends Journal.”

    Celente is one of the most respected forecasters in the world.

    But I couldn’t confirm that he went to Harvard. If he didin’t, of course, what he says is totally bogus, because only Harvard graduates are smart enough to know anything.

    http://hotair.com/archives/200.....n-in-2012/

  81. SharonDotson22

    Do not enough money to buy a building? Worry not, because that’s achievable to get the business loans to resolve all the problems. So take a bank loan to buy everything you want.




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