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WP: Bad Economy May Fuel Hate Groups

From a never-say-die Washington Post:

Bad Economy May Fuel Hate Groups, Experts Warn

Experts Warn That Downturn Could Drive Discontent, Help Extremists Recruit

By Carrie Johnson
Sunday, January 11, 2009; A04

For 20 years, Bart McIntyre has tracked white supremacist movements, even spending two years undercover in Alabama to penetrate a violent young band of criminals who called themselves the Confederate Hammerskins.

(Photo: William White, a white supremacist, was arrested last fall after posting threats on his Web site. The hate movement has a strong Internet presence.)

Away from his wife and young daughter, McIntyre took the alias "Mark," attended Ku Klux Klan rallies and educated himself in racist propaganda. He and a law enforcement partner ultimately helped build criminal cases that sent more than 10 men to prison for their involvement in the murder and vicious beatings of black men in the Birmingham area in the early 1990s.

Now, as McIntyre prepares to retire from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, he and other analysts are warning that the threat from hate groups and splinter organizations connected to the Klan should not be underestimated, especially at a time of economic unrest…

Veteran investigators say they have advocated for increased attention to the problem since late September, when the nation’s economic troubles widened, giving white supremacists a potent new source of discontent to exploit among potential recruits.

The number of U.S. hate groups has increased by 48 percent, to 888, since 2000, according to experts at the Southern Poverty Law Center, an independent organization that monitors racist movements.

Although questions persist about the ability of such groups to carry out violent plans, several recent national developments have combined to worry analysts, said Mark Potok, chief of the law center’s Intelligence Project. In addition to the economic downturn, he cited rising immigration, demographic changes that predict whites will not be a majority within a few decades, and what some might see as "the final insult — a black man in the White House."

The election of Barack Obama, who will become the first African American president when he is inaugurated Jan. 20, prompted a short-term burst of hateful incidents including racist graffiti, cross burnings and violence from New York to California, according to news reports and criminal indictments. On Wednesday, the U.S. attorney in Brooklyn indicted three Staten Island men on hate crimes charges, alleging that they assaulted black residents "in retaliation for President-elect Barack Obama’s election victory."

Last week, intelligence officials assessing security threats to Obama’s inauguration found no evidence of an organized plot, although they expressed concerns about "individuals on the extremist fringe of the white supremacist movement" who might see the event as an ideal time to make a powerful statement. …

Last month, federal prosecutors in Roanoke lodged new criminal charges against William A. White, a prominent young movement leader who calls himself the commander of the American National Socialist Workers Party. White sent letters laced with racial epithets and swastikas to the homes of black tenants involved in a housing discrimination lawsuit, according to the seven-count indictment. He also posted threats on his Web site, Overthrow.com, and in Internet chat rooms visited by white supremacy supporters, authorities said.

Shortly before he was taken into custody in mid-October, White posted on his Web site a photo of Obama "with cross-hairs taking the form of a swastika" over his face, according to a sworn statement by FBI special agent Maureen E. Mazzola in the bureau’s Chicago field division. White had solicited $10,000 that would have allowed him to print 20,000 copies of the image and distribute them in 14 "major drops" before the November election, Mazzola reported.

White is one of many hate crime suspects who have used the Internet to connect with like-minded people, said Jim Cavanaugh, a 34-year veteran of the ATF. Cavanaugh said he based his observations on long experience, not any specific pending cases.

"These three things — the Internet, immigration and the economic crisis — that is the molten mixture for these guys," said Cavanaugh, who leads the ATF’s Nashville office. "That is the furnace of hate. As we speak, this is happening."

The FBI reported in October that the number of hate crime incidents dropped last year by a little more than 1 percent, to 7,624

You have to give it to the Washington Post.

They simply will not give up trying to convince us that hate groups are going to explode – any minute now.

See here, here and here – for previous efforts by our watchdog media to fan their imaginary flames.

Oddly enough, Mr. Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center’s “Intelligence Project” figured largely in those, too.

(Thanks to Steve for the heads up.)

This article was posted by Steve Gilbert on Sunday, January 11th, 2009. Comments are currently closed.

43 Responses to “WP: Bad Economy May Fuel Hate Groups”

  1. pinandpuller

    Frankly I’m more worried about the cops wandering into my neighborhood with the wrong address on a search warrant and blowing away my dogs just for the fun of it. I want someone to infiltrate police departments and figure out why they seem bent on killing everyone’s pets a la “Puppycide”.

  2. ptat

    Ahhh,The Washington Past–a once great newspaper being dragged into oblivion by Obama and the DNC. I just finished today’s Obama filled edition—how sad. I love the way they are offering classifieds for the inauguration edition with the restriction that “all posts must be congratulatory”. Somehow I doubt they will accept my “Congratulations King Hussein for fooling most of the people most of the time.” Let it be said—The Wall Street Journal is the last great American newspaper!

  3. noseriously

    And yet it was the hate for the productive class that got this administration elected. I too fear defending my property against law enforcement and do they not know that pepper spray works on dogs?

  4. 1republicanscientist

    “For 20 years, Bart McIntyre has tracked white supremacist movements…”
    Perhaps they need to be tracking muslim extremist hate groups? Love long Hitler (well, don’t blame them for their choppy english, they only speak in grunts)? What about our beloved black panthers? Pretty hateful group.

  5. Confucius

    The title says “Bad Economy May Fuel Hate Groups, Experts Warn.”

    Yet the last paragraph says “The FBI reported in October that the number of hate crime incidents DROPPED last year by a little more than 1 percent . . . .” [capitalization inserted for emphasis]

    How many more baseless (and ultimately wrong) predictions am I going to have to endure before these “experts” are forced to pony up?

    And when did The Psychic Friends Network become a news source?

  6. Barbie

    Well maybe if these here hate groups changed their names to ‘the Weathermen’ they’d be left alone… looks like it worked out well enough for Billy boy…

  7. JohnMG

    The Southern Poverty Law Center, an independent organization?! Oh, my aching sides!! Is that the same as “non-partisan”?

    A rose by any other name—–lipstick on a pig—-ACLU—-What’s really in a name besides an effort to fly your true intentions under a fog of obfuscation?

    The real unspoken message here is that anything said on the internet will come under increased scrutiny, and if it isn’t to ‘their’ liking, be prepared to be investigated.

  8. Emerson

    Notice the focus is always on “White” hate groups, never Muslim, Jewish, or Black.
    The current President belongs to the largest hate group in America. His mainstream church calls for the genocide of white America, and he supported this hate group for twenty years (and still does).
    Obama had a steady parade of black hate Pastors on the cable channels telling us that the extremism of Wright’s church “was nothing compared to most mainstream black churches.”
    From the comments and the blog, it’s apparent that most white people don’t mind being denigrated by their own government and the Washington post.
    Obama openly declares his hatred for whites and nobody on this site finds that offensive?
    William White hasn’t hurt anyone.
    Two Negroes murdered 10 people in Washington DC.
    And Mr. Cavanaugh, with the ATF, was probably involved in murdering 80 white people in WACO.
    Who is the danger to society?

    • jbharris

      William White has hurt people and he has threatened to hurt people. The white supremacist movement has hurt people. They killed a black man by dragging him to death in Jasper, Texas. The perpetrators of that crime, Billy King and Shawn Berry should be coming up for execution real soon. Matthew Hale exhorted his followers to kill non-whites and one of his followers did by driving around Illinois and Indiana shooting at Jews, Blacks and a Korean. How about Timothy McVeigh? He was a white supremacist and he murdered over 190 men, women, children and infants in Oklahoma City. William White deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison.

      Moreover, it was David Koresh, not the ATF or Mr. Cavanaugh or Janet Reno that murdered innocent people at Waco. The cult had the compound rigged with explosives and when the FBI and ATF tried to raid it, the Branch Davidians set off the explosives killing all 80 people inside. The ATF did what they had to do. Koresh had weapons and explosives inside the compound and threatened to use them. The ATF and the FBI were in the right to go there. If they had weapons stored there and were threatening to use them don’t you think that law enforcement was in the right to do something to stop it?

      Emerson, you do not have your head screwed on right. Also, Barack Obama does not hate white people. He never said he hated white people.

  9. VMAN

    Hate groups? Nation of Islam, New Black Panthers, Hamas, Cair, and I know there’s more but this is all I could think of. Are these groups on the SPLC list? I doubt it. White hate groups are bad but let’s call a spade a spade (no pun intended)

  10. retire05

    What you don’t seem to understand is that with the election of the “second” black President (Clinton, of course, being the first) the race baiting proverty pimps like Jesse Jackson, Sr. and Al [not so] Sharpton has just had their golden calf slaughtered and it’s sitting on Obama’s plate. No longer will the excuse that a black American can not get ahead because they are held down by the evil white segment of this nation stand up to scrutiny. It just ain’t so, Jesse, baby.

    Now, the Southern Poverty Law Center is a favorite hanging out spot for those like Geraldo Rivera who will use the poor [illegal] immigrant as the next slave. How dare we think that people who want to enter a sovereign nation be required to do so legally? Are you unhumane? Do you not care for the poor of the world? So what if they have a higher rate of criminals in their midst? They are just here to do the work you won’t do.

    So while Muslims are taking to our streets, threatening Jews of our nation, screaming for the Jews to “go back to the ovens”, SPLC will attempt to resurrect the dead, and slaughtered, golden calf from which they gain much money. And pay no attention to that radical imam, preaching his hatred for our nation at his Dearborn, Michigan mosque, every Friday. He is just a figment of your imagination and racial bias.

    I suggest you stock up on ammo.

    • jbharris

      The Southern Poverty Law Center is an organization that I support strongly. They helped get a conviction against a KKK organization that attacked a Panamanian immigrant in Kentucky. We need to put hate groups like the Aryan Nations out of business. The KKK and Aryan Nations and other white supremacist groups preach hate against Jews too.

      How do you know that the Imam is radical in Dearborn, Michigan? Have you ever been there to listen to what he says? Not all Muslims are bad people. He is not preaching hatred for our nation. However, I will say this: If Muslims want to live in this country and they have a right to live here, then they should respect our country. If they want to preach hatred against it then they do not deserve to be here. The Muslims that do want to be a part of this country have a right to be here as much as you and I do.

      The same with other immigrants, they have as much right to be here as you and I do. Immigration makes the U.S. a vibrant and diverse place to live. There is no other place in the world where you can go and find as many cultures as you can here in the U.S. I love multi-culturalism. I love the mix of different cultures and different foods here in the U.S.

      I also want to point something else out to you: Yes, most immigrants from Mexico, El Salvador and other places come here to do jobs most Americans will not do or do not want to do. The employer has no choice but to hire them.

    • sheehanjihad

      “How do you know that the Imam is radical in Dearborn, Michigan?”

      It’s hard to ignore his open support of the death of western infidels and jihad against America.

      “The same with other immigrants, they have as much right to be here as you and I do.”

      There is no immigrant who has any “right” to be here at all. It is a privilege. Natural born citizens of this country have rights. Guaranteed by the Consitution.

      “Not all Muslims are bad people.”

      Then point a few of them out! The reason you dont notice “good muslims” is because they have assimilated into our society. The vast majority of them however, insist on our society changing to suit their needs…..and their unmitigated hatred for western society isnt limited to their home country.

      “The employer has no choice but to hire them.”

      The employer, knowing he can exploit immigrants freely due to the insane immigration policies of our socialist government, will gladly hire someone who will work for 5 dollars an hour with no benefits, no taxes, no social security, and no overtime, no rules, and no attempt to hire citizens who pay taxes, pay mortgages, pay for insurance, pay for everything the immigrant gets for free. What employer wouldnt put his own bottom line ahead of doing the right thing? Immigrants feed the greed of employers, not the other way around. Americans would do those jobs, but they expect the employer to at least give them a decent wage and follow the law.

  11. proreason

    You want something to hate, try this.

    In 2003 Teresa Kerry paid $627,150 dollars in taxes on a reported income of $5 million dollars….12.7% of reported income. The only reason we know this is because Traitor Kerry was running for President at that time.

    But Madame Kerry had a fortune of about 1 Billion dollars at that time (according to the WSJ), so she her “reported income” was 6/1000 of her fortune, or 1/2 of 1%. Now, the stock market went up 26% in 2003. AAA bonds averaged 6.17% that year. Real Estate was shooting through the roof. What do you think the chances are that the dear Madame actually could only make 1/2 of 1% on her fortune? In other words, she “understated” her (totally passive) income.

    So let’s compare. let’s say you earned $100K that year for a family of 4, had $50K in savings and $50K in home equity. Your federal income taxes would have been about $12,000 plus you would have paid $13,000 in FICA and Medicare taxes (counting the match from your employer). So, with a net worth of $100,000, you would have paid 25% in federal taxes….plus of course, you would have worked your butt off to support your family (unlike Ms. Kerry who is a societal parasite).

    Madame Kerry that year, with a fortune of $1 billion dollars, paid 6 / 1000 of a percent of her fortune in federal taxes. It would be the equivalent of you paying $60 in taxes (yes, 60 dollars, not 600, not 6000, 60 as in sixty dollars).

    And her husband and Obamy want to raise YOUR taxes. And by the way, Obamy’s tax schemes won’t touch the Madame Kerry’s of the world in any way.

    And oh yes, she is typical of the 100,000 families in this country who control $15-20 trillion in non-tax-paying fortunes.

    • heykev

      That would be NO WHERE close to their so called “fair share” as wealthy liberals love to opine on how happy they are to pay. Also, why didn’t this get any attention by our friends on the watch dog media?

    • proreason

      The Wall Street Journal ran 2 articles about it. The Washington Post, LAT and others then ran cover by distorting the information.

      Here’s how they did it.

      1) most important….they ignored the fact that she her declared income was less than 1% of her assets. Just ignored it.
      2) they pointed out that it is legal to invest in tax-free municipal bonds. Without of course pointing out that only the very wealth can take advantage of that HUGE tax break since those bonds pay low interest. This also served to down-play the point that she probably has almost all of her fortune in illegal off-shore accounts.
      3) they also never pointed out that no jobs are created by investing in municiple bonds. The money does not go into the private economy, it only goes toward (oftentimes) boondoggle government projects.

      What is ALWAYS ignored in this discussion, even by people who are on the right side, is that the super-rich are taxed totally differently than we are (and it has NOTHING WHATSOVEVER TO DO WITH BUSH’S TAX CUTS). a) they don’t work and don’t pay taxes on salaries. b) since they don’t work, they don’t pay SSN taxes. c) Since they are very rich, they don’t take risks and therefore pay no Capital Gains taxes. d) Since they are very rich, they can afford to invest huge amounts in tax free bonds and real-estate. On that real-estate, they have the political pull to get huge tax variances. 3) They also take huge Charity deductions, which pays for their social lives.

      So you have the 100,000 families who control 25% of the wealth of the country paying tax percentages that are tiny fractions of what working people pay.

      If the super-wealthy paid at the rates we all pay on the earnings from their fortunes, it would easily pay for all the sub-prime mortgages and the economic “crisis” would be over. It could also exceed the amount of income taxes paid by the entire country. It could easily pay for the “stimulus packages”. It could fix Social Security forever. It could make a huge dent in the Medicare problem. It could easily buy health insurance for the “45 million” uninsured (which is a lie, by the way).

      The taxes AVOIDED by the Super Rich are much much more than the taxes paid by Entrepreneurs in this country. And it is the Entrepreneurs who will be driven out of business by the manufactured economic crisis and Obamy’s taxes.

      In case it isn’t obvious, the huge irony in all this is that the liberals have started class warfare in this country, but the warfare is directed at the business people who keep people working, and who have invented miracle drugs, and who invented the internet, and who make it possible to feed the country, and who create our transportation systems. The parasites like Kennedy, Kerry, and Soros ARE EXEMPT from the class warfare. They create nothing of value, yet they are firmly entrenched as the governing class. Now they are trying to destroy the job producers so that they can claim that only government (which is THEM) can be the saviours. Obamy is their tool to do it. Step one was to reduce the producer’s wealth by 50% with the economic “crisis”. Step two is to create a tax burden so massive that working people will never be able to pay it off. Tax rates on all but the super rich will go up and up until no productive person can ever hope to become self-sufficient. The super-rich will pay nothing.

    • pinandpuller

      I wish my daughter didn’t like putting ketchup on everything short of breakfast cereal.

  12. Lipstick on a PIAPS

    What’s wrong with a group of us hating the stupidity of the incoming Obama administration
    and Democrats plan for socialism and Marxism? We just learned them from the most vocal and overexposed hate group the Bush/Republican Derangement Syndrome people. Karma, what goes around comes around! Celebrate diversity my liberal friends, as you fall out of hate we fall into it!

    • jbharris

      What is wrong with you trying to give it a chance? Whether or not you agree or disagree with Barack Obama. He is our next president and this country is in such a mess that he will need our support.

      I am a Democrat. I am also a liberal and I am sure that some of you will not like it or like what I am about to say here. No, the Democrats are not planning Socialism or Marxism. I do believe in free universal health care and I also believe in creating jobs. We need to get our economy up and running and get people back to work.

      I think Obama will make a fine president.

    • gipper

      “What is wrong with you trying to give it a chance? Whether or not you agree or disagree with Barack Obama. He is our next president and this country is in such a mess that he will need our support.”

      Plenty of Germans gave Hitler a chance too, jbharris. Look where that led. Now, in no way am I saying that Obama will turn out to be like Hitler, because I do not feel he wants to eliminate a certain race. Obama has other motivations. I am just pointing out that elections have consequences–good or bad. By the way, did you give GWB a chance, too?

      Let me see…dire economic times…meteoric rise of someone virtually unknown five years ago…election of a very rousing speaker who belongs to a socialist party…To whom do I refer? Obama or Hitler?

  13. BillK

    It’s already done wonders to fuel the hate groups MoveOn.org and the DNC.

    I wonder how long it will be before a Kos-fed idiot starts picking off Wall Street traders and how much longer before New York juries find it to be justifiable homicide?

  14. proreason

    SG, my post about Theresa Kerry’s taxes is #5 on a google search. The source article has now “disappeared” from google. The refuting articles are still there and are higher on the list than my post.

    Try this search “wall street journal theresa kerry taxes”.

    Who says the MSM doesn’t read S&L?

  15. jbharris

    Here is my view. Hate speech and calling for the death and destruction of another race, people, religion, sexual orientation, creed, gender or ethnic origin is not free speech. Therefore, it should not be protected free speech and should not be allowed. In Germany, hate groups are not allowed to preach hatred or even deny the Holocaust happened or they will face jail time. I think that hate groups here in the U.S. should be banned and not allowed to operate.

    No group has the right to preach hate and violence against other people. I think all white supremacist groups should be banned from this country. They all have a tendency to commit violent acts against other people and have threatened violence against other people.

    The U.S. was not founded on white supremacy or any form of supremacy. It was founded by immigrants and immigration built this country.

    • JohnMG

      Thank you, reverend Wright, Bill Ayers, Jesse Jackson, Louis Farrakahn, Michael Pfleger, Bernadine Dohrn, Al Sharpton, Charles Rangel, John Murtha, Joe BidenAl FrankenSheila Jackson Lee……..Which one are you, anyway?

      As for giving Obama a chance—-I intend to give him until January 21st. That is twice the amount of time you morons gave GWB when he took office.

      I think you’ve wandered into the wrong place to try selling your DNC talking points. You will. however, be treated more fairly here than one of us would be treated trying to have a civil conversation on one of your liberal sites. But do yourself a favor and take your air of superiority in hand. There are far too many here not only willing, but able, to hand you your ass. Gift wrapped!

  16. sheehanjihad

    it’s odd that you leave out the hate speech of so many Black leaders and groups. Singling out white supremacists, which are a tiny tiny minority compared to the Black hate industry is simply ignoring the elephant in the room.

    If you think hate groups should be banned from this country, then pay attention to the hate groups of color who get a free pass to commit violence and call for violence against whites and keep using racial hatred as a lever to gain political power.

    Just compare! 20 supporters at a KKK rally, and the “million man march”. The Aryan Nation rally gets 12 participants, and the “no justice, no peace” protest gets ten thousand. The hate mongering race baiters are far more able to influence the black community than a handful of white supremacists ever could dream of.

    So yes! Calling for banning hate groups from America is a great idea! Starting with the Black Caucus in Congress, all the way to local “community organizers” who use race and hatred to keep their grip on power. Good idea. Wrong target.

    • jbharris

      The million man march was not a hate rally. It was a rally for the men to do something about violence, domestic violence and drugs in their communities.

      Also, the Black Caucus in Congress in not a hate group and neither are the community organizers.

      Let me ask you a question: Do you have something against Black people? You have no reason to be against them. I am just asking because you claim that the Black Caucus in Congress is a hate group.

      Jeremiah Wright never preached hatred of white people. All of you heard a snippet of what he said in church that day. He served this country and he has earned the right to say what he wants. There are white people who attend that church. If he honestly hated white people, do you think that they would attend that church? I do not think so.

    • Liberals Demise

      Your ignorance is showing once more….the nowhere near million man march was to bring the black man back into the family circle and to embolden black principles in the missing blackmen, in the family circle. Putting the man back where the man isn’t……ROOTS, ROOTS, ROOTS!!

    • sheehanjihad

      try forming the “white caucus” and see what it gets labled as in a nanosecond. And no, I dont hate blacks. I despise anyone who uses their color to segregate themselves from the rest of society, and then has the hubris to call me a racist.

      You left all mention of blacks from your list of hate groups, and supremacists are in the vast minority of hate compared to the blacks nationwide agreement that white people are responsible for their plight. A liberal always asks if there is some undercurrent to sway the topic of conversation.

      You left out blacks totally in your diatribe on hate groups. I thought it odd that the television and media as a whole is full of examples of black hatred because there are stories on it literally every day and night, but very very little on any supremacist groups unless they hold one of their pathetic rallys.

      Supremacists have a flawed belief. Black race baiters make a living pushing hatred. And any group that excludes other races has been labeled racist hate filled bigots. So the Black Caucus is a prime example of exclusion by race, thus a beacon of hatred in our own government. and they are small potatoes compared to the other so called “black leaders.” you left them out of your hate groups…..so I didnt.

  17. VMAN

    jbharris also assumes that making these groups illegal will eliminate them. It just drives them further underground. What really fuels them is idiocy like making a high school band marching in the inaugural parade cover the patches on their uniforms because their symbol is an Indian chief and trying to ban a group of ladies marching in the parade because they’re dressed like southern belles. I think we should make all white people get treatments to darken their skin so that all the “people of color” are not uncomfortable

  18. jbharris

    JohnMG, I am neither of those people. I do support Al Franken and I hope that he can get in the Senate. He won fair and square. As for Louis Farrakhan, I disagree with him. I do support Sheila Jackson Lee, Bernadine Dohrm, John Murtha, Charlie Rangel, Al Sharpton and Joe Biden. Do you have a problem with that?

    The problem I had with Bush, (and yes, I gave him a chance when everyone was putting him down, until he decided to wage a war on a nation that never did anything to us). Iraq was never a threat to the U.S. Iraq did not possess weapons of mass destruction and Iraq did not support international terrorist groups. The only reason the U.S. launched their imperialist ambitions for Iraq is to steal its oil. Iraq was not a threat to us and the U.S. had no business going over there in the first place. That is the way I feel about it.

    • JohnMG

      OK, I give up, genius. You’re waaaaay too well informed for me. Like I said before, you’re so far left you’re clear off the charts. What you spew is nonsense, but feel free to continue with your noble charade while patriots do your heavy lifting.

      You say you support Sheila Jackson Lee, Bernadine Dohrm, John Murtha, Charlie Rangel, Al Sharpton and Joe Biden and probably the entire list of others I mentioned, and by proxy you support Farrakhan, for he is supported by the rest on the list. No, I have no problem with that at all. There’s no law against stupid. Ya’ just can’t fix it, is all. Obama and his supporters are gonna prove that shortly.

    • Liberals Demise

      You need to put another quarter in your hazy crystal ball. Al Frankfurter stole the election with the help of the Board of Elections in Minisofa. All the black people you mention are for the best part, RACE BAITERS!! John Murtha is a coward on the NTH extreme! I can say this because I served in Vietnam as a crypto / field radio operator with a Marine unit in “I” Corps. John Mutha was a Intel officer who said he went into the field with the grunts to gather data. AT NO TIME were Intell officer types ever allowed outside the roll wires of a base. They were too valueable a target for your buddies, Victor Charlie.
      As for your reasoning for us to be in Iraq…….where is the F___ing oil you talk about? Do you in your needle point thinking mind com-pre-hend that if we stole oil, we would be paying $4.00 a gallon for said stolen fuel? Do you get free flashbacks are do you suffer from the drip?

  19. jbharris

    Also, Bush got our economy screwed up because he spent trillions of dollars in a war that we will never win. As soon as the U.S. pulls out of both Iraq and Afghanistan, it will revert back to the way it was before. Why waste our time and money on places that cannot and will not change. Those people have lived that way for centuries and there is no way that the U.S. can change it. The U.S. needs to stop interferring in the internal affairs of other nations.

  20. VMAN

    I just have to say something to jbharris. This is NOT your country and you cannot and will not change Her. She has been damaged by you and your kind but the people who truly love her will soon be drawing a line in the sand. You can choose to cross it at your own peril. We will fight for her because you cannot have her. Enough is Enough!

    • jbharris

      VMAN, it is not YOUR country either. The white man stole it from the Native American Indians who were slaughtered by the hundreds of thousands. No, it may not be my country, but it is not yours either. Tell me, where did your ancestors come from? They came from Europe. My ancestors came from Europe. Now, do I want to go to Europe to live? No. Why? Because I have lived here all my life and I was born here. However, none of us destroyed this country. The people that damaged this country were the neo-cons who spent all this money on two senseless wars and proxy wars in Colombia. The liberals will bring it back and help the economy.

  21. DEZ

    Ladies and gentlemen we have a moonbaticus ignoramus in the room.
    Welcome jbharris!
    The Black caucus may not be classified as a hate group, but they are certainly a group of bigots, SJ is not being a bigot in pointing that YOU are focusing on race.
    You claim you are not a socialist and then clamor for socialized medicine, DUH!
    And Reverend Wright, we only heard one snippet? You know what we read, watched and documented Mr. Kreskin?
    You mean you only heard one snippet, Wright is a fooking loon, he most certainly a racist, a hate monger and he openly preaches hate!
    And show me the whites in his church, all I have seen is 1, and I have watched dozens of the churches videos.
    Iraq did have ties to Al Qaeda, Not finding weapons of mass destruction is not proof he didn’t have them and bury them, And we went to war for oil? to steal it?
    We should have hit Kuwait, Now please just to prove a point. tell me are you also a truther?

  22. jbharris

    Iraq did not have ties to Al-Qaeda. Show me the proof, Dez. Iraq had no links to Al-Qaeda. The U.S. had no business going over there. Saddam Hussein is not a threat to us. Was never a threat to us.

    I am a Social-Democrat, Dez. There is a big difference between Socialism and Marxism. I am for socialized medicine because there is no reason for any American to be uninsured or have no medical insurance at all.

    Iraq had the chemical weapons in the 1980’s. Who sold them to the Iraqis? The Americans did. After Desert Storm, Iraq destroyed all its weapons of mass destruction. Bush just wanted to go over there because he thought Saddam Hussein tried to kill his dad and he had no evidence of this. Also, for the oil is why the U.S. went over there.

    I have no idea what a truther is, Dez? Tell me what one is. I want to know.

    You people are stupid, you know it. Stupid. You all support a stupid, senseless war that has gotten many men and women killed for nothing. Many more will come home with mental problems and PTSD. And for what? Because of some wild goose chase for something that never existed at the time. There were no weapons of mass destruction and Iraq had no links to Al-Qaeda or any other terrorist group.

    • JohnMG

      …..”I have no idea what a truther is, Dez? Tell me what one is. I want to know……”

      Look in the mirror, fool! And while we’re on the topic, read and heed;

      “It is far better to remain silent and let the world think you are a complete fool than it is to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”

      I see you haven’t made an appointment with the doctor yet. My apologies in advance. There is no cure for terminally stupid.

  23. jbharris

    Dez, we used to have a congressman and he was as conservative as Bush was. However, he voted against going to war with Iraq because Iraq did not possess weapons of mass destruction, Iraq was not a threat to us, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and Iraq had no links to Al-Qaeda. Even GWB stated later on that Iraq had no links to Al-Qaeda and did not have anything to do with 9/11. So, why did we go over there for? Because of the oil. Iraq had the largest oil reserves in the world. Iraq has more oil than Kuwait does. We have no business in Iraq. The U.S. needs to leave other countries alone.

    • gipper

      jbharris, let me comment on your comments.

      “Dez, we used to have a congressman and he was as conservative as Bush was.”

      Here you set up a straw man argument. Straw man arguments use fallacious logic.

      “However, he voted against going to war with Iraq because Iraq did not possess weapons of mass destruction, Iraq was not a threat to us, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and Iraq had no links to Al-Qaeda.”

      Here you continue your straw man argument. You argue that because your congressman believed as he did and voted as he did, that he was right. Just because you believe someone is right does not make him or her right. The underpinnings of your argument are weak, too. You use an old liberal mind trick that works on those who cannot think for themselves: Repeat something often enough, and people will start to believe it. How did you or your congressman know that Iraq was not a threat? Did you read the intelligence reports? You also assume your former congressman was omnipotent when it came to Iraq.

      “Even GWB stated later on that Iraq had no links to Al-Qaeda and did not have anything to do with 9/11.”

      I do not think GWB said that. As Wikipedia would say, “Citation Needed”. Original source, please.

      “So, why did we go over there for?”

      We went over there because there were credible threats to the stability of the ENTIRE Middle East region. If Iraq did have WMD, that could set off a chain of events where the whole region could be at war. I am talking about Iraq, Iran, Israel, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and more. It does not matter whether the intelligence for WMD later turned out to be unfounded. Just the chance that Iraq had WMD was reason enough to invade. We also went to secure peace and freedom for the Iraqi people. That is what my wife is doing now.

      “Because of the oil.”

      Sigh. Think through this. Why in the world would we invade a country for oil when we had enough oil for our use before the war? Gas was a buck and change before the start of the war. Oil was abundant and still is. Sure, maybe in 2050 there will be a war for oil, but this war is not fought for oil.

    • Barbie

      ‘We used to have a Congressman’… So who is this conservative Congressman of whom you speak? I’m curious why you’ve not named him even though you’ve credited him (per your sentence) that ‘Iraq did not possess weapons of mass destruction’ but tell me you’re not talking about RINO Chafee – who’s neither conservative nor a Republican – I see no speeches given by an ex Congressman who (Ron Paul’s a congressman who voted against the resolution but he is still an active rep), as you write it, had incontrovertible evidence otherwise (i.e. no wmd)… You state Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction? Really, because ALL of the intelligence and the hallowed viewpoints of our Congress and multi-international and national voices at the stated otherwise. (And in the Congressional archives, you’ll find speech after speech after speech given by your precious Hillary, bloated Al Gore (guess he wasn’t bloated then), even the most lib in Congress, saying (at one time or another) they believed Hussein a threat with access and ability to use WMDs). Of course now, being the cockroaches most Dems are, they pretend they had nothing to do with passing that resolution…

      And the United Nations – being the total sack of worthless **** it is, did nothing – except issue resolution after resolution – 17 OF THE THEM – that’s higher than most libs can even count!!!! all resolutions telling Saddam to stop being a big meanie else he’ll get a demerit next to his name… (butllsh*t). BTW, and just how did Saddam Hussein manage to kill without thought or hesitation or conscience all of those Kurds – over 180.000 I believe, in the North? Why, with chemical weapons which I do believe are classed as WMD (would the brain-dead libs ever a ‘thunk’ it). Have you seen any documentaries on what happened to the Kurds? They’re laying around dead like piles of clothing – like slaughtered animals. Many tried to take refuge in cellars but Saddam used an extra special impact high formula (this was not the first time they’d been assaulted) that would seep in and kill men and women and children. Why did he do this? He was testing it. Now I realize you faux libs out there speak how much you care about humanity but we know that’s bull. You like to use that line when it’s convenient but you love to watch innocents being slaughtered so don’t pull that on me.

      So come on – you assert there were no WMD – cite your source because I doubt you knew more than the above mentioned people combined. Colin Powell at the time said there was – for one – at the time. But above and beyond even that (and Powell is just a nitwit in my opinion) is the fact the President is SWORN TO PROTECT THE SECURITY OF THIS COUNTRY. And President Bush did – instead of sitting around like that pusillanimous Bill Clinton – who let our men be killed time and time again while he was getting his bj in the Oral Office – President Bush, actually performed his job to the American people – I realize you fruitcake, empty-minded leftists are usually so tanked up on your own chemicals you couldn’t determine the truth (hence a truther is really a misomer and you know you are a ‘truther’ and you know what one is – your own ignorance proves it) but the reality is the President does do something besides get serviced by interns. What a shock. And Bush’s – back by the Congress – took steps to PREVENT ANOTHER 9/11. You see, we can no longer afford to be reactive – Bust was proactive in protecting us; the Bush doctrine reversed the prior eight years of disinterest in protecting this country. BC’s disinterest and non-responsiveness fueled the aggression of militant Islamists like Bin Laden (and our other enemies). Step by step the danger came closer and Clinton did NOTHING. Now try to wrap your ind around this simple concept – President Bush identified a serous lethal threat to our security and supported by intelligence, supported by the majority of Congress and voted on by the Congress (which is the way the constitution works – NO, sweets, you can’t just make it up as you go along – so sad for you) took steps to protect us/ Good, I am glad I actually had a president who protected me and my family instead of sitting around feeling up chicks like Blow J Clinton or like Obama – will desperately be trying to piece a real thought together…

      Bush went to war for oil??” He did??? We sure didn’t get much out of it. Just because you left wing opportunistic leeches would suck dry any opportunity doesn’t mean everyone will. You half wits use this same old knee jerk comment yet you have no proof. And I say if GW went to war for oil GOOD -Our country runs on oil and that is a securiry matter just like someone dropping bombs on us. YOu shouldbn’t be calling people stupid or groups of people stupid when you’re unable to even present one iota of evidence or even a coherent argument. Try citing a source. But you can’t. At the root of it is you are just plain angry America protected itself and GW was a MAN and a PRESIDENT who stood up and said NO, he would not allow us to be invaded…

      Now you can relax. Obambi and his staff of huggers will insure this country will be struck again. So see, you have something to look forward to. Oh, and don’t give me this garbage you gave GW a chance… YOu’re the type You’ve been kissing Obambi’s rear from the first second you saw him utter his mindless mantra HOPE AND CHANGE. Tell me, great intellect, jbharris – what did Obama ever accomplish that proved he would make a competent president???? Nothing – you don’t know – just like the rest of you Obama dummies don’t have a clue what Obamba’s record was about…

      I think what makes me the most disgusted with the anti-war crowd is they just crow and crow about what activists they are – but the only reason is there is free speech in this country. These lefties would shut up like clams in a repressive country where there could be actual repercussions against dissenters. But lefties think they’re such hot sh*T – the reality is you’d be quaking in fear waiting and wanting the U.S. Militaty – the bravest in the world – to come rescure their chicken-sh*t asses.


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